Jared_mello Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Taking all of things that BK does right---its success as a nearly annual top 12 finalist, a rewarding experience, great hornline with tons of upside---you have to start looking for "what`s next". How can we take what we do, but do it better? I think one of the biggest problems with BK has been its level of crowd engagment. In your own words you say that BK tried it in 2001, but failed miserably. Then, the following season, it was promptly back to the comfort zone. But that didn:t work out so well either. It wasn`t until `04 that BK returned to finals. In the famous line chart anology of Mark Arnold himself, doesn`t it "have to get worse before it gets better"?If BK is truly committed to pushing the envelope....let`s push the ###### thing. Let`s actually play some tough licks while doing all that dancing. I know...easier said than done, but I think our staff and talent can pull it off given the right approach. Some examples of innovations that I have seen recently are, say, the neat note bending in Boston`s show, the implimentation of far east instrumentation in the Cavies program )Taiko, Biwa, panflute, and of course the absolutely crazy hauling arse finish on Phantom`s closer. Those boys are moving and putting out some nice volume to boot. Is any of that entirely new? More than likely not. I am sure there is a show or two I have missed throughout the years, but those are nicely placed areas of showmanship that really please a crowd. BK wouldn`t have to sacrifice a shred of its identity in order to achieve the same. i'd say 2002 definitely worked, considering it made up the entirety of the 2006 and 2007 shows that were 2 of the best in corps history. i haven't seen 02 (just listened, a lot), but i think it was just dirtiness and an upstart "division 2" corps that kept them out of finals. bk is pushing the envelope, by doing more and more crazy visuals. what corps has ever done a visual where they balanced their shakos on their feet? thats CRAZY. i semi-freaked out when i saw them practicing that outside of their busses in murfreesboro last year. couldn't comprehend the fact that it was actually in their show. i think their show is a lot more innovative than boston's (note bending? i think that was the cavaliers). they also do play some hard stuff in their show. ironically, much like something i remember someone once posting about blue knights 2000, i thought the counterpoint and exposure came across as EXTREMELY difficult in bk's show this year, honestly. don't know why it comes across that way, unless that really is how their parts are written. the bass feature was really unique, there was a long pit feature (which is also something that seems to be unique to bk's shows every year), and the mood in the intro was one of the most unique i've ever seen. reminded me a bit of glassmen '04, another show whose intro i liked a lot. after watching it, the only show i thought was similar was star '93, in that it's very "difficult." difficult to wrap your mind/ears/eyes around, that is. i think it'll make a lot more sense to me when i see it tomorrow on the computer, but for now, it stands as probably the weirdest show i've ever seen in person. that counts for something, i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared_mello Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Thanks for the kind words about BK, but I just don`t get this. You are basically saying, "thanks for being middle of the road, BK. Don`t do something silly like trying to get top 3 anytime soon. I like having a little break in between.* Come on, now. Where`s the drive to be better? This is a competition, right? no. more like "thanks for being creative, while being in the ranks of dci where the corps typically stop being as innovative as the top corps." if they're going to place in the 8-10ish spots, they still program their shows so that they're more memorable than the few corps on top and pretty much all below them. something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 good point.your point is reasonable; interesting at worst, but i must say that i disagree with your spin on the blue knights' intentions. i even more so disagree when considering that your opener was called "a time for hate." what other kind of mood should the performers be creating? if the staff told you guys to perform "a time for hate" with the attitude of "liking the dci experience, gratitude for your scores so far that season, and interest in entertaining the crowd in maryland," you think it would have come across as effectively? it's just a metaphor that was used to potentially motivate other members of your drum corps. edit- just wanted to mention that your title and subtitle looked like i was about to read a research paper or something, heh Wow...not getting to bed anytime soon. Satisfaction with scores? Never. That is precisely why I put these two posts on here. Let me point out that the "anger" mentallity goes far beyond our opener that year. The corps seaped a sense of revenge. We were out for blood. I am all for agression....that is what compeition is all about. But this was something alien...for lack of a better word. Everyone was bent, irritated, and disenfranchised. That attitude seeped its way inot the membership that, yes, was 80 percent vets. I suppose you would have had to been there to understand the nuance of what I am talking about. Even Jason admits to a level of this being present at that time. In spite of Jason`s very thoughtful response, I believe there are members of BKs staff who, for whatever reason, are locked into an "us versus them" mindset which is holding the corps at ranson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutsop98-99 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 "us versus them" mindset As in BK versus ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared_mello Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 lets say an nba team gets to the finals 2 years in a row, and they lose both times......directly relating to questionable calls by officials. you dont think they're going to be even more motivated the 3rd time? you dont think maybe, during the heat of competition, the coach might bring it up so as to increase the focus and intensity of the players? maybe a figure skater's score mysteriously drops on the night of her three most recent championship (??) performances. you know revenge, competitive revenge, is going to be on her mind right before she gets on the ice. it's completely possible to juxtapose the disrespect from past emotions, into a controlled yet inspired performance. whatever happened, it worked in 2000. from a spectator's standpoint, i appreciate seeing drum corps who perform like they're angry. i liked seeing the snare player at the end of bk 2000 who did that "##### slap" visual, and angerly stepped back into 1st position with his feet. it was intense, and i enjoyed watching it. it specifically stuck out to me, because he was in the heat of the moment. all this "it needs to get worse before it gets better," "now you're up to a certain level of cleanliness where a whole new level of dirt has been uncovered," "perform/practice like you're ###### off," they're all semi-universal motivating tools within drum corps. there are a lot of young and immature kids in our activity who don't always practice with the intensity of a big performance, and they're worse off for it. your staff wanted to ensure everyone's wholehearted dedication to their show. if you can turn off the "anger" as soon as the season is over, then i dont see a problem. if the staff uses that approach all season to motivate the corps, then yes, it'll surely get annoying and repetitive. i'm sure it was weird for rookies to hear, considering they didn't feel disrespected by what happened in years past. i can completely imagine though, after 1999, people being angry about losing a spot finals night, in madison, to madison. maybe not some people, like the ones who don't care too much about scores (like yourself), but some people probably took it personally, and the staff motivating them with bitterness was just reinforcing something they already felt. im just speculating, but then again......i suppose thats what youre looking for in this thread. you obviously feel how you feel about it, and i'm not sure what you want the people of dcp to do to change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared_mello Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 As in BK versus ? hahaha.....im not too sure a madison scout from 1999 should be posting in this thread about the blue knights bitterness in 2000. rupert murdoch is indeed the antichrist by the way, or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amil Muzz Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) I wish I knew who I was talking to...PM me... I can honestly say that there is not anything that has not been said that has not been kicked around on DCP that has not been talked about amongst the staff and management. This year we have a young but very, very talented brass section and a talented corps across the board and not too many age outs. Discussions about what we need to do next year to max out the monster we could have have already started. When it comes to moments that make people go nuts, I have spent a great deal of time thinking about those and the characteristics they share. Will those work with the BK formula....that the question. I do not know if playing harder licks is the answer....2000 taught me that. That whole show was a hard lick. Do I think BK could be more efficient and more strategic with how that stuff is presented...well...that is the discussion I think everyone has Density of presentation can be a double edged sword. As any composer will tell you acheiving compositional balance is the secret to a great piece of music. Should the corps start from an established form and write out from that. There are plenty of examples of that in the activity, that is not a criticism, but I think it is true. It is a tough nut to crack... In Westchester, PA I was watching Crown. I was watching the show with Jack Bevins and it suddenly struck me, Crown is playing a VK show this year. Without the gags, but musically it is an old VK show, how clever is that? Crown is not saddled with an identity to deal with...they can do and have done an amazing variety of music in the last few years, and do it so well. Would that work for the Denver team? Probably not... Is identity as important as it once was? Stuff to chew on... Edited August 7, 2008 by Amil Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 Wow...not getting to bed anytime soon. Satisfaction with scores? Never. That is precisely why I put these two posts on here. Let me point out that the "anger" mentallity goes far beyond our opener that year. The corps seaped a sense of revenge. We were out for blood. I am all for agression....that is what compeition is all about. But this was something alien...for lack of a better word. Everyone was bent, irritated, and disenfranchised. That attitude seeped its way inot the membership that, yes, was 80 percent vets. I suppose you would have had to been there to understand the nuance of what I am talking about. Even Jason admits to a level of this being present at that time. In spite of Jason`s very thoughtful response, I believe there are members of BKs staff who, for whatever reason, are locked into an "us versus them" mindset which is holding the corps at ranson. Jason made a mistake about the title. It was "Intro to Montage", just for clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amil Muzz Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Jason made a mistake about the title. It was "Intro to Montage", just for clarification. My bad...A Time for Hate came later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I like BK. They're kool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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