Why do drum corps shows have to lack subtlety to be enjoyed by fans?

[jplattSCV]

First off - I am gay. What I think the original poster was saying is that Cadets have a more feminine show because a bunch of gay guys are talking the whole time. The best was a comment in a thread about the boxing in Bluecoats show coming across as two queens having a pillow fight.

I'm a Madison fan but the funniest thing I've ever heard yelled from the stands was from 4 aged out Madison color guard guys before Madison started their show (some time in the '90's). They yelled "Let's Get 'em girls!!".

I thought of that when I saw the Bluecoats boxer start dancing with the rest of the guard. I pictured De La Hoya prancing around in pink boxing trunks.

<----- Do I get a gift for achieving "Veteran" status?

Edited August 8, 2008 by jplattSCV

[atlvalet]

It seems like whenever a drum corps doesn't do a show that isn't doing something that beats "fans" over the head with music (ie: making everything as simplistic and straightforward as possible) then people come on this board and really gripe about them. It just seems strange to me, drum corps is so concerned about the idea of 100% overtly masculine musical/visual gestures at all times. The minute a corps does something with more feminine gesture, people here lose it. Look at the poor Blue Knights! I understand if someone doesn't like the show this year as much as the last couple (BK 05-07 is great stuff, 08 has some left to be desired), but that doesn't seem to matter because BK always gets bashed.

Also, there was that "company front" thread, someone was arguing that corps "never" just go into a company front and just play really loud and give them what they expect. However, the point of great music etc is not to give what the audience expects. There is something to be said about building to something, gesturing back down and developing back into something truly great. It just seems like drum corps fans are afraid of anything involving subtlety and anyone who happens to like thinking about things. Drum corps is a very animalistic activity, what do you guys think?

If you think drum corps should be turned into a wine tasting contest, that's your prerogative. Personally, I like it when a nice powerful hornline melts my face off with their awesomeness. I like it when drumlines play crazy shizzle others can't. And I like it when the colorguard throws rifles high, high into the air. Nuance, for nuance's sake, is really kind of silly IMHO. Now, Star did use nuance with great effect in '93....but the show was exciting because there was an undercurrent of high, high energy there.

If you ask me, DCI isn't "masculine" or in your face anymore. That's kind of DCA's role now. In fact, I've seen more than a few people mention that DCI hornlines don't sound as loud as they used to. So, I guess I don't really understand your point. If people are going to explore artistry for artistry's sake then eventually DCI will have even fewer people in the stands. THis activity is really about entertainment. People don't buy tickets so you can bore them with your 11 minute show. Although, maybe DCI thinks the audience exists for the artist when really it's the other way around.

Edited August 8, 2008 by atlvalet

[BRASSO]

Well, take it upon yourself to go educate the masses up to your level of sophistication. Until you can do that, accept the fact that you are smarter and more sophisticated than the average drum crops fan.

Good job!

Well, it's clear that " BD- FAN " poster here doesn't like the... ( his quote ) the" blue collar " people.

Apparently the" blue collar mentality " gets too much respect in his view.

Now, what this has to do with Drum Corps shows and music likes and dislikes is of course..... comically silly.

And on a more serious note....... also shows some blatant ignorance and biases toward a particular group of people who simply work without the benefit of a suit, shirt and tie.

Edited August 8, 2008 by BRASSO

[Lancerlady]

Nothing has to be explained, just watch. If people need to have a drum corps show explained to them I really question their intelligence.

Also, what's wrong with the announcer thing the way it is now? Especially with what Boston and some other corps are doing, I think it's really cool. Is it pretentious because you didn't think of it?

I thought my question was a valid one and was looking for a discussion here not a bashing on my question. I am talking about a new person being brought in to drum corps. How would you explain it to the average 16 year old who might not get it. Geez. He implied that there was something in the show that we're supposed to be "getting".

As far as the corps moving before the announcer asks if the corps is ready, no, I just don't like it and find it pretentious. And no, it's not pretentious cause I didn't think of it. That's nice that you think it's cool, I just happen to not like it..is that okay with you?

What is with this board lately? Excuse me for trying to have a discussion.

[mad_scotty]

It seems like whenever a drum corps doesn't do a show that isn't doing something that beats "fans" over the head with music (ie: making everything as simplistic and straightforward as possible) then people come on this board and really gripe about them. It just seems strange to me, drum corps is so concerned about the idea of 100% overtly masculine musical/visual gestures at all times. The minute a corps does something with more feminine gesture, people here lose it. Look at the poor Blue Knights! I understand if someone doesn't like the show this year as much as the last couple (BK 05-07 is great stuff, 08 has some left to be desired), but that doesn't seem to matter because BK always gets bashed.

Also, there was that "company front" thread, someone was arguing that corps "never" just go into a company front and just play really loud and give them what they expect. However, the point of great music etc is not to give what the audience expects. There is something to be said about building to something, gesturing back down and developing back into something truly great. It just seems like drum corps fans are afraid of anything involving subtlety and anyone who happens to like thinking about things. Drum corps is a very animalistic activity, what do you guys think?

i don't think its just about whether shows are simple or complex. a lot of what passes for complexity is actually self absorbed nonsense, things that just can't project well in a limited time slot in a football stadium. the issue isn't as simple as whether the shows are complex or not, it's about whether the shows are engaging the fans or ignoring them. what's truly great about ignoring your audience to appeal to your own intellectual vanity? drum corps fans aren't afraid of subtlety, they just want to be involved, and like most people, when you blow them off they respond in kind. theres something to be said for filling a stadium, you know. fans buy the gas that keep the buses rolling, so the choices are either appeal to them and keep them happy, or shut down more corps, and more shows, and end up with a half dozen corps doing a harlem globetrotter-esque series of exhibitions with each other in half empty stadiums for 3-4 weeks a year.

[Slow Adam]

Where did BD_Fan's last post disappear to?

[Mike_B]

BD is all big hits in between percussion fills, did nothing for me. It's like a series of unconnected bits of songs. Cavy's, now that is sublety. I had no preconceptions and I've heard the shows several times. I tried to like BD because they're BD, but I couldn't. Cavaliers win. Nobody else in the running. IMHO

[cadetsfan]

I don't want to see all that "artsy" stuff. Just give me "in your face" drum corps.

I want the in your face stuff and I like a bit of the "artsy"stuff mixed in.

What I cannot stand is a show that is nothing but "artsy".Back in the day music was reachable.Corps would take songs that were popular and make shows that became classics.Look at Ice Castles,The Rose,McArthur Park and many more.Those were songs that you left humming when you walked out of the stadium and was humming 6 months after the season was done.I cannot think of a show in the last few years that I hummed 6 months after the season was done.

A few of the corps like Phantom can even take "artsy" to a whole new level and make it entertaining.

Now days you almost have to be a band director or a corps director to appreciate the shows.

Edited August 8, 2008 by cadetsfan

[BD_Fan]

i don't think its just about whether shows are simple or complex. a lot of what passes for complexity is actually self absorbed nonsense, things that just can't project well in a limited time slot in a football stadium. the issue isn't as simple as whether the shows are complex or not, it's about whether the shows are engaging the fans or ignoring them. what's truly great about ignoring your audience to appeal to your own intellectual vanity? drum corps fans aren't afraid of subtlety, they just want to be involved, and like most people, when you blow them off they respond in kind. theres something to be said for filling a stadium, you know. fans buy the gas that keep the buses rolling, so the choices are either appeal to them and keep them happy, or shut down more corps, and more shows, and end up with a half dozen corps doing a harlem globetrotter-esque series of exhibitions with each other in half empty stadiums for 3-4 weeks a year.

What's wrong with ignoring the audience. If you think you can create something better then do it. These people are creating what they want, and if people happen to like it more power to them.

Do you honestly think, when Elton John sat down to write "Bennie and the Jets" he was thinking, "Oh man I'm gonna write this and people are going to like!" Hell no, he didn't know! He was just......expressing himself!!! He was putting himself on the line, and then when he first played it, people may or may not have liked it.

When Beethoven wrote his Pastorale symphony (no.6) do you really think he was going, "I'M GOING TO APPEAL TO MY AUDIENCE!"

What does "appeal to the audience" even mean, the audience is a diverse beast. I'm the audience aren't I? What about people in the audience that are dumb as a rock but still love stuff being done by the Cavaliers. I don't get it man, when people talk about "audience appeal" on this board, they usually only mean one thing "faster louder higher", and that doesn't appeal to anyway, so I guess "faster louder higher" technically isn't audience appealing now is it? Different people like different stuff, jack.

[Toby]

It may not be that fans want absolutely no subtlety to the music. But, with many lines not playing more than a full forte, we'd like the occasional move the stands back ffff.