bluecoats88 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Jared, I completely agree with you, but here's my take on it. If you would have gotten a 19.8 last year at Finals after going on in the 7th place position, what room would that leave for the next six corps? What IF all of the last six ended up playing better than you? How could they fit six corps' scores in the range of 0.2? It's not right by any means, but that's the way it is. It would be a very risky decision by the judges to do that. They should have to nads to do it, but they don't. Scott, in that instance if the corps that goes on seventh to last gets a 'lower' score in a caption to leave room and then ends up being better than the 6 corps following them in that caption, I would expect those 6 corps to get scores lower than the 7th place corps. Yeah the scores would be low relative to other years, but realistic in relation to the low score that was given to the eventual best corps in that caption. Unfortunately you don't tend to see the judges drop the top corps below a corps that was atually better than them in a caption who went on early and got a lower score then they deserved due to leaving room on the sheets for the remaining corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorcoly Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Unfortunately you don't tend to see the judges drop the top corps below a corps that was atually better than them in a caption who went on early and got a lower score then they deserved due to leaving room on the sheets for the remaining corps. Ah how I long for the days of Bernie Baggs (former brass judge), and Paul Wojtena (former percussion judge) who -- as Scott put it -- "had the nads" to not care if your corps was in 1st or 8th place. They judged a corps based on that day's performance, and their numbers reflected it. if you didn't bring your "A" game, you didn't get the number!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 ok ok, i'll provide an example, even though i tried to avoid specifically doing so in my earlier post. the bluecoats 2007 hornline. 1st place almost all season, and a 19.8 in brass on quarterfinals night (when we performed in the 4th.....maybe 5th but i think 4th place slot) by andy poor, the chief dci brass judge. i think we came in 3rd in brass at one show during the season, but we were essentially in 2nd place at worst all year....1st at most of the regionals. after prelims, we wound up performing in the 7th place lot for the last two nights. both nights we came in 4th in horns. the hornline was filled with vets, most of whom were around when the corps 'turned it up' during the previous years finals weeks when we jumped other corps with days left in the season, so there would be no reason to make immature mistakes at the big shows. hypotheticals aside, the last two shows were the best two, as far as i know/was told.the only variable was the watering down of some of the brass (most notably the mellophone) parts late in the year, but those things certainly didn't happen on friday or saturday. i guess the other one would be the other corps getting DRASTICALLY better those last two nights, but honestly, what's the likeliness of them getting that much cleaner that late? my point is not to complain about those results, not by any means, but i think it's a pretty reasonable example in regards to what's being discussed. if you feel that our performance level dropped those last two shows, let me know, because that's not the impression i've had in the past year. i have albert lo's judge tape from finals last year, and he spent pretty much the whole tape gushing about various things, giggling when appropriate, and mentioning how the contra line was the best in dci. you used the drumline as an example from this past year (6th place overall, 3rd in drums), but last year we were 7th overall and got 2nd in drums. maybe that's a better example as well. I disagree, sorry From the stands last year, your best run was quarters and the worst was finals, you seemed kind of flat (and I loved your show btw and would have had you one place higher) but it appeared to me, the 7th place after quarters took the wind out of your sails, er horns I mean Also don’t discount watering the horn book, musically; I enjoy your mid-season DVD show better, much better Just think like a judge, you hear a killer horn book earlier in the year and mark them first but later in the year you notice it was watered down, it’d be hard to keep it in first then - even if you are just being compared to your prior self you’ll come up short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sday88 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 How about this idea. First off, I've NOT thought this through, so don't ream me. I think the judges should score the corps as they see fit as they watch them, but not turn in the scores. Then after everyone has performed, they go back and look at the scores they gave and adjust them as needed to get the placements they feel are correct. So if they would give Bluecoats a 19.9 in drums even though they went on in the sixth place position, and then the next five corps ended up being better than them, they could adjust the score at the end of the day. I'm sure there are probably reasons this wouldn't/couldn't work, but like I said, I actually never thought it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sday88 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Scott, in that instance if the corps that goes on seventh to last gets a 'lower' score in a caption to leave room and then ends up being better than the 6 corps following them in that caption, I would expect those 6 corps to get scores lower than the 7th place corps. Yeah the scores would be low relative to other years, but realistic in relation to the low score that was given to the eventual best corps in that caption.Unfortunately you don't tend to see the judges drop the top corps below a corps that was atually better than them in a caption who went on early and got a lower score then they deserved due to leaving room on the sheets for the remaining corps. I see what you're saying. The only thing I can think of here is that by lowering the scores in that one caption you could very well drop a corps out of an overall placement that they really did deserve. For instance, let's say that the Bluecoats were the cleanest line at Finals, but the judges scored them to leave room for the rest. If they would have scored Bluecoats percussion really high and then had to "lower" the rest of the drum scores to compensate, that very well could have dropped Phantom into second place overall. This is only considering that Phantom had a lower drum score than Bluecoats, which they didn't. Am I making sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorcoly Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Am I making sense? Just like "normal!!" (Kidding!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared_mello Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 How about this idea. First off, I've NOT thought this through, so don't ream me. I think the judges should score the corps as they see fit as they watch them, but not turn in the scores. Then after everyone has performed, they go back and look at the scores they gave and adjust them as needed to get the placements they feel are correct. So if they would give Bluecoats a 19.9 in drums even though they went on in the sixth place position, and then the next five corps ended up being better than them, they could adjust the score at the end of the day. I'm sure there are probably reasons this wouldn't/couldn't work, but like I said, I actually never thought it through. which also poses a good question.....do the judges use pencils, or pens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorcoly Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 which also poses a good question.....do the judges use pencils, or pens? Depends on who the judge is!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I see what you're saying. The only thing I can think of here is that by lowering the scores in that one caption you could very well drop a corps out of an overall placement that they really did deserve. For instance, let's say that the Bluecoats were the cleanest line at Finals, but the judges scored them to leave room for the rest. If they would have scored Bluecoats percussion really high and then had to "lower" the rest of the drum scores to compensate, that very well could have dropped Phantom into second place overall. This is only considering that Phantom had a lower drum score than Bluecoats, which they didn't. Am I making sense? No. If the spreads are the same, it makes no difference what the actual scores are. From what little I have heard, I thought the judge's two primary responsibilities were to rank and rate. Giving out scores of 19.8 or higher is not part of that agenda. Therefore, if a corps appearing before sunset at DCI finals presents the caption-winning performance, they should have the highest score in that caption at the end of the event. If that score was a 19.2, then everyone else should score less than 19.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartyount Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I don't know how practical this is, but maybe the judges should just take notes during the show and then assign scores afterword - or even just assign a rank instead of a score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.