Finals Attendance

[bluecoats88]

Here's the news story from after the show:

It's amazing that 5 of those 12 corps that made finals in 1983 do not exist anymore.

[Liam]

Somewhere along the line, the junior drum corps activity switched from being about participation to being about performance. "Marching's Major Leagues" implies excellence, not widespread participation -- the elites of the marching activity. I'm not saying that this switch was right or wrong and I'm not getting into the reasons for it, inevitable or not. All I'm getting at is that the numbers comparison between then and now are not useful indicators of "success" or "failure" or "trends" because the game has changed -- it's not the same activity. Then was a youth neighborhood activity -- taking kids off the street and putting a horn in their hands and teaching them to use it to put on a show. Now is a musician's activity -- culling the best and most experienced from successful and organized high school and college programs to create masterpieces on the field. (Not that it was never about competition then, nor is it completely void of participation goals now, just referring to the overriding focus, imo). In between has seen the massive growth of high school programs and contests to fill the gaps Maybe HS increase was the result of DC decrease, maybe it was the other way around. Regardless, the marching envirnoment has changed, so strict numbers comparisons alone aren't really sufficient to conclude anything about the health or growth (or lack thereof) of drum corps.

[Tom Brace]

You are obviously being silly.

Of course, they can't invent new corps, but you can make the activity easier for them to be formed, rather than harder.

You can also attempt to make it easier for the ones in existence to keep existing.

No, my friend...WE can. WE can continue supporting this activity with our efforts and resources. It's not about DCI, or X or Y, it's about US. What are we willing to do to support drum corps.

I see two things. If you love DCI become a Friend of DCI. Donate money. If you love a corps...give them money, support, time, effort, energy whatever you can.

Now, if you are no longer a fan of DCI....and believe me, I understand there are people who are....(you can all stop PMing me, btw). There is another circuit called DCA and people can also choose to support their favorite DCA corps and DCA as an organization.

So, it's not what DCI or DCA or anything else can do....it's about what we can do.

By the way....the economics works. I have found the more financially involved a person is with the corps or organization, the more they don't want to risk losing your resources. You tend to get a louder voice if you are paying more and more of the bills for example.

[Tom Brace]

Is that really the one thing that you took from my post to comment on?

Embarassing might have been a bit strong, but my point is that a large segment of fans don't attend shows like they once did, and the reason for this is that they just don't like the product as much. Empty seats is their way of show their displeasure.

and you have zero to base this on. zero.

24K paid last year at finals....plus regionals. It appears the stands are finding seatwarmers.

This year is going to be somewhere beteen 18.5K and 20K based on preliminary information. Not bad for a finals that had to move its site and potentially move it again.

I did not see many open seats on the crowd pics I've seen from Bloomingville. And...after listening to the audio from some cellphones, smuggled cameras and other video from the site we do not mention...I did not hear any displeasure.

So, please....attempt to justify your opinions with some relative facts.

[JimF-LowBari]

It's amazing that 5 of those 12 corps that made finals in 1983 do not exist anymore.

Now you made me look at my side of the fence for 1983.....

1 91.450 Sunrisers - taking year off

2 89.950 Hawthorne Caballeros - still here

3 87.550 New York Skyliners - parade corps this year (no field corps in 2007)

4 86.350 Westshoremen - gone (Alumni only)

5 82.650 Bushwackers - still here

5 82.650 Reading Buccaneers - still here

7 82.200 Connecticut Hurricanes - still here

8 72.800 L'Odysee - existed a few years/gone

9 70.000 Archer-Epler Musketeers - actually an Alumni corps that competed a few years

(back to not competing)

10 67.700 Steel City Ambassadors - gone (Alumni only)

11 62.750 Empire Statesmen - still here

12 62.050 Rhode Island Matadors - gone

Roughly the same break down as DCI so IMO both circuits face many of the same problems.

[08Hawkeye]

Somewhere along the line, the junior drum corps activity switched from being about participation to being about performance. "Marching's Major Leagues" implies excellence, not widespread participation -- the elites of the marching activity.

Precisely why chose to pursue DCI. If there was not the emphasis on the performance/skill curve, I wouldn't have bothered.

In between has seen the massive growth of high school programs and contests to fill the gaps Maybe HS increase was the result of DC decrease, maybe it was the other way around.

I gave college marching band a shot after I got back from tour, but my entire mindset and approach to playing had changed. I demanded better of myself and the peers a played with. When it was apparent that (my school at least) did not put at least a somewhat similar emphasis on performance, well that is when they lost another dci'er from the band - didn't bother me one bit. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing, but positive it was the right thing.

sw

[kusankusho]

Now you made me look at my side of the fence for 1983.....

1 91.450 Sunrisers - taking year off

2 89.950 Hawthorne Caballeros - still here

3 87.550 New York Skyliners - parade corps this year (no field corps in 2007)

4 86.350 Westshoremen - gone (Alumni only)

5 82.650 Bushwackers - still here

5 82.650 Reading Buccaneers - still here

7 82.200 Connecticut Hurricanes - still here

8 72.800 L'Odysee - existed a few years/gone

9 70.000 Archer-Epler Musketeers - actually an Alumni corps that competed a few years

(back to not competing)

10 67.700 Steel City Ambassadors - gone (Alumni only)

11 62.750 Empire Statesmen - still here

12 62.050 Rhode Island Matadors - gone

Roughly the same break down as DCI so IMO both circuits face many of the same problems.

Look at total losses as a percentage of total corps on the field in that year. DCI losses are way higher than DCA's if I'm not mistaken.

[Tom Brace]

This discussion inspired me to go to Nexis-Lexus, which is a research source that has tracked newspaper articles back to the late '70's. It requires a subscription, but I have access.

Here's a press release from DCI that I found in regards to the 1982 show:

To me, attendance is only one part of the measurement of success of DCI. Isn't the activity supposed to be about participation as well?

DCI's own website describes itself as "global youth activity with far-reaching artistic, educational and organizational influence." If there are fewer corps, there are fewer participants. If there are fewer participants, less young people are benefiting this so-called "far-reaching" and educational activity.

Fewer corps also has to translate to fewer competitions and fewer people in the seats cumulatively across the summer.

Good call. Yes...the attendance can be argued is roughly the same....a 6K for Open Class total, a 10K, 15K, 20, week for World this year is roughly the same numbers in attendance.

Participation IS key. So, what are YOU doing about it? How many corps do YOU support? How much money are EACH of us giving to support this activity we are obviously so passionate about?

[JimF-LowBari]

Look at total losses as a percentage of total corps on the field in that year. DCI losses are way higher than DCA's if I'm not mistaken.

Would be an interesting thread to go back thru the last <pick a number> years and get a percentage of corps still active. Can be broken down by top 10/12, corps appearing at DCA/DCI, corps active that year but not going to DCI/DCA Weekend, etc, etc.

Then I look at 1993 when 13 field corps showed up for DCA, say WTF happened here and just can the whole idea...

Back OT: Will be interested to see 2009 attendance when the Indy stadium is ready. Wondering how many people didn't go because of the problems with both Indy/Bloomie stadiums. Yeah, I don't go to DCI shows but still follow what happens. "Just Remember, we're all in this together" <$1 to Red Green>.

Edit: Just looked at corpsreps for 1983 and boatload of Junior corps that did not go to DCI Prelims. No idea if they had field shows as Chris lists all corps that who knows about that performed in some way. Just too many corps that I know nothing about.

Edited August 12, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[EndzoneEric]

A Google search says little except that internet capabilities have grown. You get more from a search because more news outlets put their news online and because search capabilities have improved. It's a poor way to compare to the pre-internet days of the activity.

I am not asserting anything other than the fact that there was more coverage of DCI this year than there was for the past several. News.Google.Com is one way you can measure that... DCI's PR people are doing a masterful job with little to no resources... just good ol' fashioned shoe leather and elbow grease.