Class A 35 minimum rule

[Jeff Ream]

...because as stated above BEFORE this past weekends show we have 35 but a last minute family committment left us with 34. No one knows what the future may store for themselves muchless any given time before a given date of performance unless you're Ms. Cleo Fields.

Still we competed with 35, myself recovering from 2 car accidents, 2 members recovering from surgery, and 2 more members performing injured this past weekend, but still we put on a #### good show and recieved some very positive pop and feedback from the crowd, unfortunately it was not reflected on the score sheets.

did the members have a good experience despite the scores? remember, there is more to drum corps than a number, tho that can help. then again, i know many people who marched in winning corps that were miserable.

the key is, and i dont think you get, is that for the future, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH BODIES SO YOU DONT RUN INTO JAMS!!! And if staying home and hauling ### across several states can help you earn money and get bodies, so be it.

look at Empire....they're involved in their community all the time...think they got bodies by traveling all over the east coast? No, they built the home base up. Thats one of the things that helped further bury Westshore in 1998.....management thought people would show up just because and we should travel all over the NE to shows, and we could gain people.

yet they damaged an already damaged rep here at home and basically ignored the local area.

[Jeff Ream]

Kinda like how blaming DCA for all your problems DOES equal results?

Funny you should mention the rule book, as a lot of what I'm proposing is taken from existing appendices in the DCA Rule Book and modified as necessary to fit the situation we're discussing. Furthermore, as was stated in the post, the costs would be absorbed by the petitioning corps. If this cost is outside the reach of the organization, how can you possibly claim that you are in a sound financial position to travel to Rochester?

First, no stigma. Call it like it is. You are a "novice" group in the DCA competitive arena. Plain and simple. If you have a better idea for another word that sounds better but means the same thing, I'm all ears. You're older than me. Congratulations on that. I still have half a dozen season of drum corps experience over you. And all of them were with small drum corps. Even won some nifty hardware a couple times along the way. It's almost like I know what I'm talking about. And the new kids on the block shouldn't get a vote, considering only full members are allowed to vote at meetings, as per the DCA Rule Book.

As a drum major myself, I can certainly see your point of view. We do perform quite a bit. In fact, just to make sure we meet the 35 member criteria this year, I even play contra for a portion of our show so that I can be included in the total member count. It's saved our butts a couple times already. But (if you read the proposal in its entirety) you can see that I also called for this class to bridge the gap between minicorps and Class A (i.e. - 22-35). So that one member would be superfluous really.

Well that's the thing. Some do and some don't. That's why the 35 minimum rule was created in the first place. It was designed to keep half-baked "drum corps" from biting off more than they could chew and becoming just another "flash in the pan" that comes out for a year or so and folds. Drum corps needs a certain criteria for "checks and balances" to protect corps from themselves. Many of us are very passionate about what we do and maybe don't see things as clearly as others do. (For example: someone from a lower tier corps claiming they will crack a top 5 spot even though it's questionable whether or not they'll even make the top 10.) And it happens to the best of us from time to time.

Then I'd say it's a good thing the people who actually make the rules take their duties seriously and would never consider making such a hasty decision without reading and re-reading the proposal and giving it its due discussion.

Awfully confident, I'd say. I saw Austin Stars at the Atlanta show and I have to say I was very impressed. The hornline sounded great. But lets face facts here: you have no drumline to speak of, so you'll be taking a zero in that caption. You also only had 19 members at that show, so (if you were assessed 1 point in penalties for each member under the minimum as you suggest) you'd be taking 16 points in penalties. By my math, even if you took PERFECT SCORES in EVERY OTHER CAPTION, you'd still only score a 69.000, and that won't make the cut for finals (Open Class OR Class A) no matter how you slice it or skew the data.

Okay now you're just being silly. Look... DCA is not out to get you. If anything, it sounds like you're out to get DCA. I thank God that the other members of the Austin Stars represent their corps with dignity and class, and I hope they get where they're headed. I can't believe that your skin is so thin that you would attack MY intellect when I'm giving up MY time to try and HELP YOU. I am still going to go ahead and submit this proposal when the time comes and I hope it helps some corps to realize their dreams while enabling DCA further controlled growth.

As for you, well I'm done with you. Nothing anybody says or does can seem to please you. I'll see you the next time we're down South (unless, of course, your van breaks down and THAT'S DCA's fault, too.)

Sayre,

Can you create a rules proposal on what to do in the event of a hurricane, especially when corps pictures are involved?

thanks

[Jeff Ream]

Oh geez, where do I start.

Out of context Legal Eagle. WHAT IF FUTURE CORPS DID DCA. Would they appreciate being called NOVICE CLASS?

A 69.00? That's not Last place in previous DCA seasons. How could anyone be NOT happy with that at a first DCA appearance. Especially if you're missing an entire judged caption. Went on first and all of the other perks of making a first DCA appearance.

In almost every corps I've been in since Jr. Corps, I have owned my own horn. I have paid my own dues. I have even paid the dues of other members. Who is DCA to assume I or my corps can't afford to also pay for a trip to DCA? Quite frankly it's none of their collective bees wax.

Personal attacks? You mean like 50% of the posts in this thread towards me? I am allowed to defend myself. Deny me that and meet my lawyer. Or at a minimum cease to have my $upport. Over $10K in drumcorps assets invested in this season alone. Do you really want that to "go away"?

No drumline? Perhaps you missed our rather good trap set drummer down there. The regional circumstances means that most drummer who can hold a tempo have a performing gig in this region. Why would they choose DCA over a paid gig? If business logic ruled the world and all.

As far as Atlanta, we were short two guard members. School and Job conflicts. Could happen to any corps at any commitment. We still did a good show. Corpsvets even allowed us to perform our ENTIRE SHOW TWICE. Even though we didn't win, and we were for all intents and purposes the smallest corps in attendance. (or did we win, still waiting on the score?) Only two corps got to do that. Corpsvets and US. And it kind of made the trip worth it. Good vibes throughout the DCAS region. Not that DCA will get to experience that anytime soon, under current rules.

who attacked you? ( ignoring the rest, already blwon out of the water). if you mean by calling you out on your bluff ( still waiting to see those videos), that's no attack, that's calling a spade a spade.

[Jeff Ream]

Sorry that I used your DCP handle in one of my posts, Liz.

Didn't mean any disrespect. I guess that I don't really know the protocol for that. And I was just deferring to your statement, since my (slower one) was just redundant.

just don't call her Lizzie

[Jeff Ream]

The operative word being Trying... Since according to the rules, we're NOT a part of... Not trying to slam, just stating how it is.

I so want to post media, but just a member and all I don't want to get sued or my corps sued. We do have some good media. Some better media next year when I step out of the performance side and into just media. Gotta show DCA how it could be and all. Hopefully I don't make too many fans dissatisfied with the quality of media they're currently getting from DCA. Once they see what they could have had. Not that things were optimal this year being a performing member as well. Most recordings needing to be amped +13dB or more since I was running on best safe guess. But the gear was good enough to still be good. Could have been so much more, as could DCA.

- James Shatto

'88-'92 Freelancers (Euphonium)

'93 Freelancers (Cooking Staff)

'98 Westshoremen (Euphonium)

'02 Cincinnati Tradition (Euphonium)

'04-05 Gulf Coast Sound (Euphonium / French Horn / Mellophone)

'06 Kilties (Euphonium)

'07-'08 Austin Stars (Tuba / Trumpet)

'94-'97 283rd Army Band (Trombone)

so then work your ##### off to make it better and make DCA eat crow down the road. if the rest of your corps has your attitude, I dont think a lot of DCA folks will miss you all that much. The good thing is I don;t believe the rest of your corps has your venom

[Jeff Ream]

Thanks....I remember saying pretty much the same thing....

Can you site your examples? You see those Class As far more than I do....Mandarins was the one that always stuck in my head, which is why I was using them as my example.

I'm talking about DCA the last few years when you had some under 35's and right at 35's. Look at Govies...never huge. heatwave had a couple of great shows with membership right at the limit. of course yes Mandarins, and I think even Acadamie a few times in DCI. Alliance I think their first year was maybe 40ish.

[Shadow_7]

Talk about venom. The 35 rule has no contingency for being under 35. One member from competition, I guess. But if we got one member, and then lost them the day before DCA. Going to DCA to find ourselves disqualified and not even allowed to perform on the day of Prelims doesn't exactly benefit a corps. And there's corps in danger of that this year. And apparently there's a $3,000 fine associated with that condition as well, which prompted this thread in the first place.

All of this was never an issue before the 35 rule. We opted not to go because we didn't have 40, because that's the safe route(but not really that safe) with a 35 rule. Because you've got to figure that at least one is gonna come up with a school conflict, and one is gonna fall off a ladder or something and not be able to go as well. And as the size of the corps gets bigger, so do the counts for those performance conflicts.

In practical application, if you don't have 50 semi-solid members, you can't in good consciousness commit to DCAs 35 minimum. We're not close to DCA, there's a lot of time and miles between here and there. And as far as monster pits, we're talking non-percussionist that just stand there 95% of the show. Occassionally doing something like dancing, or pointing at the drumset player. Just to not incur a $3K fine. Not exactly the performance I'd want to compete with. But according to the rule, legal and encouraged. So shame on us for not doing that in the world according to jeff.

[Kay]

Talk about venom. The 35 rule has no contingency for being under 35. One member from competition, I guess. But if we got one member, and then lost them the day before DCA. Going to DCA to find ourselves disqualified and not even allowed to perform on the day of Prelims doesn't exactly benefit a corps. And there's corps in danger of that this year. And apparently there's a $3,000 fine associated with that condition as well, which prompted this thread in the first place.

All of this was never an issue before the 35 rule. We opted not to go because we didn't have 40, because that's the safe route(but not really that safe) with a 35 rule. Because you've got to figure that at least one is gonna come up with a school conflict, and one is gonna fall off a ladder or something and not be able to go as well. And as the size of the corps gets bigger, so do the counts for those performance conflicts.

In practical application, if you don't have 50 semi-solid members, you can't in good consciousness commit to DCAs 35 minimum. We're not close to DCA, there's a lot of time and miles between here and there. And as far as monster pits, we're talking non-percussionist that just stand there 95% of the show. Occassionally doing something like dancing, or pointing at the drumset player. Just to not incur a $3K fine. Not exactly the performance I'd want to compete with. But according to the rule, legal and encouraged. So shame on us for not doing that in the world according to jeff.

Were you ever kicked out of the Blue Devils?

[Jeff Ream]

Talk about venom. The 35 rule has no contingency for being under 35. One member from competition, I guess. But if we got one member, and then lost them the day before DCA. Going to DCA to find ourselves disqualified and not even allowed to perform on the day of Prelims doesn't exactly benefit a corps. And there's corps in danger of that this year. And apparently there's a $3,000 fine associated with that condition as well, which prompted this thread in the first place.

All of this was never an issue before the 35 rule. We opted not to go because we didn't have 40, because that's the safe route(but not really that safe) with a 35 rule. Because you've got to figure that at least one is gonna come up with a school conflict, and one is gonna fall off a ladder or something and not be able to go as well. And as the size of the corps gets bigger, so do the counts for those performance conflicts.

In practical application, if you don't have 50 semi-solid members, you can't in good consciousness commit to DCAs 35 minimum. We're not close to DCA, there's a lot of time and miles between here and there. And as far as monster pits, we're talking non-percussionist that just stand there 95% of the show. Occassionally doing something like dancing, or pointing at the drumset player. Just to not incur a $3K fine. Not exactly the performance I'd want to compete with. But according to the rule, legal and encouraged. So shame on us for not doing that in the world according to jeff.

I love how you keep the same theme, but the more holes are poked into your arguments you bob and weave.

Guess what dude...any organization is going to have rules. that's the bottom line. So, if you took all of this time you sat on here playing the victim, and instead went out and did something about it...either drafting a proposal that you like ( and btw, i think Sayre's still waiting for an apology) or recruiting members, who knows...next year you could show up and prove us all wrong.

it isn't the world according to Jeff. It's the rules according to DCA. And if you guys quit in March, then honestly, shame on you and your corps. Shadow, who is your corps director? I'd love to hear from them, because honestly, your whining carries no credibility now, and we'd instead be willing to listen to them. You keep saying DCA thinks you suck talent wise. That's not the case, and you still havent put up links to where we can see the corps to agree or disagree with others who say that. it's about whats best for DCA, and like it or not, your corps. Maybe you should talk to the Sun Devils, because while bummed, they found a positive in it.

Besides...if you were really in Westshore in 98, you should understand fully why things like the 35 year rule are in place. If that corps had hit the field, it would have killed the organization to the point 99-01 never would have happened.

so whine all you want. it's the law of DCA, and your approach doesnt help you anymore than all of your whining after 2006. And insulting someone like Sayre, and probably me somewhere I may have missed along with others, just destroys your cause more.

[5drumsweeps]

did the members have a good experience despite the scores? remember, there is more to drum corps than a number, tho that can help. then again, i know many people who marched in winning corps that were miserable.

the key is, and i dont think you get, is that for the future, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH BODIES SO YOU DONT RUN INTO JAMS!!! And if staying home and hauling ### across several states can help you earn money and get bodies, so be it.

look at Empire....they're involved in their community all the time...think they got bodies by traveling all over the east coast? No, they built the home base up. Thats one of the things that helped further bury Westshore in 1998.....management thought people would show up just because and we should travel all over the NE to shows, and we could gain people.

yet they damaged an already damaged rep here at home and basically ignored the local area.

I agree with you IMO its common sense to have enough bodies as not to run into jams, we had the bodies before the season, and still do but there are going to be uncontrollable circumstances one cannot predict nor control.. we're only human. We certainly didn't give up nor did we come to DCP forums or DCA complaining. Staff made the correct decisions to get our Corps on the field for competition and that we did and provided a very entertaining show this past weekend regardless of the 35 rule even though personally I had much more fun performing our show in Alpharetta than Douglasville.