Hornlines: How much is too much?

[Lance]

And I'll take a mf hornline with good tone quality over a fff hornline that sounds like garbage cans being beaten with frying pans.

I'm not even a Cavies fan. lol.

[golfman1198]

Nice photo gooffy! Honestly, I believe the best sound put out last year was done by Phantom and Crown. Crown just knows how to create a full Brass wall, Phantom hornline just sounds powerful and hot. I thought the same about the Cadets in '07, but got the same feeling from BD from their championship replay.

[Leland]

I'll ramble for a bit..

I think it's most important for the hornline to match tone across the board. I don't really enjoy overblowing and crass brass, but you can go to the edge if everyone does it the same way.

I'll go for that.

What a lot of people get mixed up is when they think that "control" must always equate with "mellow".

People used to ask Arnold Jacobs where & why Chicago's brass section got that sound, and he said it was because the conductor asked for it -- which was also influenced by the brass just not being heard very well at the podium itself because of the room's acoustics.

Philip Farkas, one of Jacobs's fellow brass players, is credited with saying, "Each dynamic level of your instrument is associated with a particular tone color." Think carefully about that. Does it make sense to have fortissimo sound like mezzo-forte? Composers don't write "FFF" only for more decibels, they want a different, bigger, more aggressive sound. Play some Metallica on your home stereo, but instead of playing it loud, turn the volume down. It seems loud and aggressive, doesn't it? Next, play some acoustic solo guitar and turn up the volume more than before -- it will be louder, but it will still feel less aggressive than Metallica played softly.

One of the corps I heard this year (not in the top 5 that everyone talks about) stayed with the rich and mellow sound at all times. It created a couple problems, though, neither of which were small or inconsequential. One - their trumpets, like many trumpet lines I've heard, couldn't get very loud before reaching that edgy/sizzling tone color, so while they were restricted to a mere mf, the rest of the hornline had room for more volume, and they sounded bottom-heavy much of the time. Two - they weren't changing moods very well because they never played with an aggressive sound.

Mellow is mellow, and that's it -- it never gets "aggro". Sometimes you want aggression; sometimes you want huge, operatic drama.

The whole thing about playing in tune being louder, IMO, is a crock. It's a trick to encourage the players -- who always want to play louder ;) -- to pursue good intonation. Louder is louder, and there's no way around it. Star '92 and BD '88, two exceptionally well-tuned and balanced lines I've heard, were also two of the quietest hornlines among their peers... and, honestly, they just didn't get the same kind of crowd reaction as other, louder corps.

I've known two different approaches to getting a balanced, loud sound. One is to let the players crank it up early on, then rein them in later to bring the really loud ones in line with the rest. The other is to make them play with good control and balance at the beginning, even if it's a bit quieter, then have them push the envelope more and more as the season progresses. The result is pretty much the same.

If I were to categorize three different approaches by the crowd responses I've heard in the stands, they would be like this:

Mellow and balanced - "Yes, that's very nice and well-presented."

Loud as balls but a little loose - "Holy cow! They're LOUD! Awesome!"

Loud as balls, yet seamless and balanced - "Amazing! THAT is a great hornline."

Ultimately, and because it always seems to get the crowd going more, I want to hear LOUD. But, I want to hear the whole line do it. I'd rather get it done by strengthening the weaker players than by holding the strong ones back.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Leland

[Lance]

I'll ramble for a bit..

I'll go for that.

What a lot of people get mixed up is that "control" must always equate with "mellow".

Yep. As in, a controlled sound is not necessarily a mellow sound. Phantom was a good example of that this year...controlled and loud, and anything but mellow. The opening hit of BD 96 is a good example. The Bluecoats' Boxer thing this year is another example. Lots of other examples, but those are just a couple that jumped to my mind.

[Leland]

Yup, that's how I mean it (I don't think what I typed is clear on what I meant, though).

When I'm in front of a line, I try to make the ones who stick out back off so that they fit into the sound of the group -- but I also demand more sound from the softer players. For a little while, they're all uncomfortable. The loud players don't like being restricted (it's like telling a racehorse to walk), and the soft ones aren't used to moving so much air. But, eventually, they get the hang of it.

It's really cool when they get that wall o' sound.

[Hrothgar15]

I appreciate when a hornline plays out of control throughout a good portion of the show. One of my favorite hornlines of all time is the Madison Scouts 1995 hornline, due to the fact that they were able to move beyond "control" and enter into the realm of "pure energy." I really dislike when a hornline maintains control throughout the entire show, I need moments where they just let loose. If I want to hear a controlled sound, I'll go see a wind ensemble play.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Hrothgar15

[silvertrombone]

Can we all agree that this is drum corps and not the Berlin Phil??? We like it b/c it is raw. We like it b/c it is loud. And we don't care, quite frankly, to an extent, whether its perfectly in tune or not. If we wanted tuned brass we would be listening to Berlin.

That being said, I really think that Berlin is a poor ensemble sound, thus a bad example to use. But the recordings I'm thinking of are with a recording engineer conducting, so what can one say? I prefer Vienna, personally.

Edit: BTW...any of you fellow MuEd types who truly expect your bands to always play like they're in the Meyerson??? Get real. We're talking about brass and woodwinds performing in hot, cold, humid, dry, sunny, night-time, etc conditions. Its not the Emerson quartet. Its drum corps. "BLOW MY FACE OFF!!!"

Edited September 2, 2008 by silvertrombone

[Leland]

Can we all agree that this is drum corps and not the Berlin Phil???

Well, yeah, but then again, a lot of orchestra brass sections get further into the realm of "edgy" and "raw" than a lot of instructional staffs (in band and corps) allow their lines to play. Orchestras don't always play like small chamber ensembles accompanying a formal dinner, after all. I've got some orchestral recordings that I view as prime examples of massively loud with control and equal contribution from the players.

[Mahler8]

Actually, if we're talking symphony orchestras, I'll dare any of you to find a group better than the NY Phil.

And those groups sound like that because EVERYONE does it.

And its completely different outside. It doesn't come across as edge, it comes across as crass.

And Hroth, thats cool and all, but any ensemble that doesn't know how to have control and doesn't show it is a very immature ensemble. The 95 Scouts DID have control. They just had a very powerful, forceful sound.

I love edge as much as the next guy. I can't stop listening to the Dallas Wind Symphony (anyone who has heard them knows what I'm talking about ), and the CSO's brass section is fantastic and pretty much the best in the world.

But drum corps musicians aren't professionals, and not every single one of them plays with the same quality, intonation, and blend. Thats why that sound is usually one that I don't prefer in the drum corps setting.

[Lance]

Can we all agree that this is drum corps and not the Berlin Phil??? We like it b/c it is raw. We like it b/c it is loud. And we don't care, quite frankly, to an extent, whether its perfectly in tune or not. If we wanted tuned brass we would be listening to Berlin.

Again, basic fundaments of what separates music from noise, like intonation, don't magically become irrelevant to everybody because "hey, it's drum corps." It has nothing to do with wanting a corps to sound like a symphony orchestra, it has to do with not wanting to hear things that sound bad. I love loud. A lot, for the record.

A lot of this depends on how we define "good" or "crass" or "raw" or whatever fun term we choose to throw out.