Tuba

[iPlaydaTuba]

I've always wanted to try a yamaha 202. I've played the dynasty 875 (BD, glassmen, etc) tuba extensively, and it is horribly unbalanced. I could never seem to fill it with enough air to produce volume, and the general design is misplaced for what someone would need to grab on the go. It seems like it would be an awesome upright concert tuba though, and worked great when I've played it indoors sitting down, despite having to hold almost the entire weight of the horn by the valves. Seems like the leadpipe could stand to be shortened at the mouthpiece reciever so the horn sits about 3-4 inches farther back. That would give the valves just enough clearance in front of your face while creating optimal balance.

A corps i marched with in DCA intentionally cut down the dynasty 4/4 leadpipes by about 3 inches... it honestly makes the horn so much better balanced without really effecting the pitch. I think dynasty needs to relook into their tuba designs. there are alot of easily fixable flaws.

[idontwan2know]

Also, I dunno how they rate the sizes of marching horns, but why is it that a drum corps 4/4 is the size of a 5/4 concert tuba, and a drum corps 5/4 is the size of a 6/4 concert tuba?

There is no naming convention for tuba sizes. Each manufacturer decides to label their models as they see fit.

[HornsUp]

A corps i marched with in DCA intentionally cut down the dynasty 4/4 leadpipes by about 3 inches... it honestly makes the horn so much better balanced without really effecting the pitch.

You can bet yer britches that chopping a leadpipe will affect the pitch. Cutting 3" from a BBb tuba will have the same effect as cutting 3/4" off a trumpet.

When Dynasty brought out the 5/4 Super Magnum 3 valve G contrabass, it was horribly flat to everything else. It needed 3½ inches trimmed from the tuning slide (7 inches from the total length) to come up to standard pitch.

[ussglassman]

You can bet yer britches that chopping a leadpipe will affect the pitch. Cutting 3" from a BBb tuba will have the same effect as cutting 3/4" off a trumpet.

When Dynasty brought out the 5/4 Super Magnum 3 valve G contrabass, it was horribly flat to everything else. It needed 3½ inches trimmed from the tuning slide (7 inches from the total length) to come up to standard pitch.

Yeah, I really don't feel like taking a hacksaw to a $5000 horn without ensuring the changes wont ruin it. But...what exactly was done to the leadpipe? I've extended the leadpipe out to the end of its "slide distance" and it balanced nicely, but made the pitch too flat, so I was forced to just deal with it. It seems like you could unsolder the receiver, cut about 3 inches off, then solder the receiver back on at that point. Couldn't you just adjust the tuning slide to compensate? Is there any other way to make sure it lines up correctly?

[ussglassman]

There is no naming convention for tuba sizes. Each manufacturer decides to label their models as they see fit.

Well, great, then my Dynasty 875 just became a 5/4:-P

[Shadow_7]

I think part of the issue is that the horns are designed for DCI - Finals in August 100F+. But ultimately get used by Marching bands - Football season - 30F- (plus higher altitudes). Most modern Bb marching horns I've had, have played flat in the "off" season, even at room temperature. The anti-trombone rule for the tuning slide to not exceed the ability to change the pitch more than one whole step, doesn't help much. Throw in a TAN slide and the main tuning slide is limited to a total adjustment of maybe half a semitone. Leaving it's real world function as just a point of disassembly to help clean the horn.

As far as center of mass, you can always do the trombone counter weight thing. There's normally a brace long enough to tape a roll of quarters to. Not the best for a marching horn, as the braces are already too weak for the intended usage. But an option. Cutting the leadpipe or tuning slide does affect the tuning, or at least the nodal points. Which can not only affect pitch, but the responsiveness of the horn. It's why some horns sound better when the braces are broken, as the brace was on a nodal point. Or doing something drastic like cutting the tuning slide or leadpipe actually improves the responsiveness of the horn. As the braces or spit valves weren't in the right place (accoustically) to begin with.

[ussglassman]

I think part of the issue is that the horns are designed for DCI - Finals in August 100F+. But ultimately get used by Marching bands - Football season - 30F- (plus higher altitudes). Most modern Bb marching horns I've had, have played flat in the "off" season, even at room temperature. The anti-trombone rule for the tuning slide to not exceed the ability to change the pitch more than one whole step, doesn't help much. Throw in a TAN slide and the main tuning slide is limited to a total adjustment of maybe half a semitone. Leaving it's real world function as just a point of disassembly to help clean the horn.

As far as center of mass, you can always do the trombone counter weight thing. There's normally a brace long enough to tape a roll of quarters to. Not the best for a marching horn, as the braces are already too weak for the intended usage. But an option. Cutting the leadpipe or tuning slide does affect the tuning, or at least the nodal points. Which can not only affect pitch, but the responsiveness of the horn. It's why some horns sound better when the braces are broken, as the brace was on a nodal point. Or doing something drastic like cutting the tuning slide or leadpipe actually improves the responsiveness of the horn. As the braces or spit valves weren't in the right place (accoustically) to begin with.

It makes sense that the horn was designed to play with odd weather in mind. But, I'd like to figure out why a legitimate marching music company would build their mainstream marching tuba so that it would be uncomfortable to hold while playing?

I've also played a season on one of their 5/4 4 valve G contras, and although it sat at a balanced point on the shoulder, everything else about the way the horn was built needed drastic consideration. Anyway, the 875 I play on typically plays slightly flat, and if I use a small mouthpiece, its right on with the tuning slide in. With that in mind, would shortening the leadpipe still cause critical changes, even if the main tuning slide was adjusted outward?

[deltabass]

the king 1151 has a very nice sound, but does have some pretty bad tuning issues on some important notes, such as the F in the middle register, which can be about a quartertone low. besides that, it is about 10 pounds heavier than a yamaha, and has a large majority of the weight in the front, making it uncomfortable and difficult to get used to.

[HornsUp]

It seems like you could unsolder the receiver, cut about 3 inches off, then solder the receiver back on at that point. Couldn't you just adjust the tuning slide to compensate? Is there any other way to make sure it lines up correctly?

Without seeing or knowing the construction of a particular model, I can only furnish you the general principles.

You can only shorten cylindrical tubing. You cannot take length out of a tapered tube.

What you take off of one place, you have to add back in somewhere else along the cylindrical run. Unless you want to change the overall pitch.

You might have to move or remove braces to accomplish your surgery.

I am in the process of building a 3-valve K-90 that will balance perfectly. More will follow. The project is getting a huge amount of care and consideration, because I have dealt with 100s of people who have had to carry these things around all summer.

[Slides of Mass Destruction]

5/4 Super Magnum 3 valve G contrabass

That name is sooo EPIC! (sorry, I have nothing useful to contribute to the thread.)