Sorry, another electronics topic.

[kickhaltsforlife]

i have marched in a band without a drumline... but we had all acoustic instruments in the pit, mainly played by one person, this was because we didnt have enough for a drumline. So i can see the reasoning in not having a drumline.. i guess electronic drums in place of that is what bothers me. Set of a rack with a snare in the middle and toms and other stuff around it. It sounds real, and doesn't pop out to me like electronics do. (it can pop out, if overplayed, but i would rather that, then it popping out through amps)

[PCSoprano9702]

No, won't happen. They'll leave the drums and replace the bugles... horns... brass, or whatever.

[FTNK]

I'm gonna have to predict that there is a 0% chance of a World Class drum corps ditching their entire battery any time soon.

[randomnoise]

There was a Finalist band at BOA without a battery. They had an electronics setup at the back sideline. It was a great sound, but more Techno than drum corps. They took 6th place (I believe).

Tarpon Springs.

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

This thread has brought up a couple of things I've been thinking about regarding how synths will be implemented.

First, I wonder if there's a clear distinction between a synth and a sampler. These days in the electronic world that distinction is blurred with some synths using digital samples as the basis of a given sound. If there isn't really any sort of clear distinction (and you'd almost have to do it by synth/sampler model), we could see synths/samplers used:

To bolster brass sections. You could sample (and with the memory available these days) a brass segment playing a portion of a chart and then have the sample played back to complement (make it louder of course) a given brass section. So you have a section of 20 brass that could potentially sound like 50 brass and winning the crowd against a weaker "unassisted" corps of 30. Not only could this help with volume for the one corps, but it could also help them in execution by having the hardest parts merely samples replayed at strategic moments.

Or you could have a snare section for instance spread out on the field and have a sampler trigger a sample of a really difficult, but clean sampled patch-would the field judge ever know that it wasn't "played" live? So would that judge be impressed by hearing all of these wonderful sounding passages, but in fact they were only wonderful sounding samples?

Another scenario: You can actually buy pre-sampled (or played) drum patterns-so drumming could descend into who is the cleverer programer, who can afford the most 'memory' and the best pa system. That would eliminate alot of the potential for error because the most difficult passages would be pre-played. So typically, you could have a drumline of Bill Bachman, Ralph Hardiman and Tom Aungst actually playing the tough stuff via samples???

Most of the above scenarios I regard with horror. On the other hand, I think Remo (or maybe Roland) has a new electronic marching pad controller, that I think could be viable for cadet corps, perhaps alumni corps, and smaller children, as the weight of today's percussion instruments is far to heavy for the backs of young children. SO I'm not entirely anti-electronics. But as indicated above, I'm concerned about this path that DCI is headed down.

Edited November 19, 2008 by pearlsnaredrummer77

[bersurkman]

First, I wonder if there's a clear distinction between a synth and a sampler. These days in the electronic world that distinction is blurred with some synths using digital samples as the basis of a given sound. If there isn't really any sort of clear distinction (and you'd almost have to do it by synth/sampler model), we could see synths/samplers used:

To bolster brass sections. You could sample (and with the memory available these days) a brass segment playing a portion of a chart and then have the sample played back to complement (make it louder of course) a given brass section. So you have a section of 20 brass that could potentially sound like 50 brass and winning the crowd against a weaker "unassisted" corps of 30. Not only could this help with volume for the one corps, but it could also help them in execution by having the hardest parts merely samples replayed at strategic moments.

Or you could have a snare section for instance spread out on the field and have a sampler trigger a sample of a really difficult, but clean sampled patch-would the field judge ever know that it wasn't "played" live? So would that judge be impressed by hearing all of these wonderful sounding passages, but in fact they were only wonderful sounding samples?

Another scenario: You can actually buy pre-sampled (or played) drum patterns-so drumming could descend into who is the cleverer programer, who can afford the most 'memory' and the best pa system. That would eliminate alot of the potential for error because the most difficult passages would be pre-played. So typically, you could have a drumline of Bill Bachman, Ralph Hardiman and Tom Aungst actually playing the tough stuff via samples???

Most of the above scenarios I regard with horror. On the other hand, I think Remo (or maybe Roland) has a new electronic marching pad controller, that I think could be viable for cadet corps, perhaps alumni corps, and smaller children, as the weight of today's percussion instruments is far to heavy for the backs of young children. SO I'm not entirely anti-electronics. But as indicated above, I'm concerned about this path that DCI is headed down.

I understand your concerns but don't forget that the rules require one sound for one motion. Sampling of musical sections (more than one note) are not allowed.

As for live vs sampled drumming, it is impossible to fake drumming and make it look real. Plus the drum judge who would be right in the faces of the drum line would not hear anything.

Now who is to say that someone can sample a trumpet hitting all the highest notes and then playing them while the soloist fakes it?

[Perry S]

This thread has brought up a couple of things I've been thinking about regarding how synths will be implemented.

First, I wonder if there's a clear distinction between a synth and a sampler. These days in the electronic world that distinction is blurred with some synths using digital samples as the basis of a given sound. If there isn't really any sort of clear distinction (and you'd almost have to do it by synth/sampler model), we could see synths/samplers used:

To bolster brass sections. You could sample (and with the memory available these days) a brass segment playing a portion of a chart and then have the sample played back to complement (make it louder of course) a given brass section. So you have a section of 20 brass that could potentially sound like 50 brass and winning the crowd against a weaker "unassisted" corps of 30. Not only could this help with volume for the one corps, but it could also help them in execution by having the hardest parts merely samples replayed at strategic moments.

Or you could have a snare section for instance spread out on the field and have a sampler trigger a sample of a really difficult, but clean sampled patch-would the field judge ever know that it wasn't "played" live? So would that judge be impressed by hearing all of these wonderful sounding passages, but in fact they were only wonderful sounding samples?

Another scenario: You can actually buy pre-sampled (or played) drum patterns-so drumming could descend into who is the cleverer programer, who can afford the most 'memory' and the best pa system. That would eliminate alot of the potential for error because the most difficult passages would be pre-played. So typically, you could have a drumline of Bill Bachman, Ralph Hardiman and Tom Aungst actually playing the tough stuff via samples???

Most of the above scenarios I regard with horror. On the other hand, I think Remo (or maybe Roland) has a new electronic marching pad controller, that I think could be viable for cadet corps, perhaps alumni corps, and smaller children, as the weight of today's percussion instruments is far to heavy for the backs of young children. SO I'm not entirely anti-electronics. But as indicated above, I'm concerned about this path that DCI is headed down.

Ok Sorry, putting on my picky hat here. There is a difference between a synthesizer, which creates synthetic approximations of the desired sound, and a synclavier, which uses digital samples of the actual sounds. There are some devices that combine both capabilities. This is where the judges need to be careful. A Corps could conceiveably get one that uses both and try to use the synclavier part covertly. I would hope not but it wouldn't be that hard. The Synclavier company itself is no longer but, the technology is still in use today (or variations on the technology).

edit for my atrocious typing lol

Edited November 19, 2008 by Perry S

[scottgordon]

I'm gonna have to predict that there is a 0% chance of a World Class drum corps ditching their entire battery any time soon.

Didn't the Ventures win class A one year without a battery?