contrajedi8 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 ...and if it only gets 2 more notes in tune (F/C), who cares? Why add all that weight? The only good note below Low F is Low D (234), and how well does that travel outside? Sure, soft moments, you can hear it. F# still sux. E still sux. Eb sux. Db sux. (EDIT: forget about C and B!) I say "Booooo" to any logic that says "just add a 4th valve." If they don't make any of the slides real-time adjustable, I don't care. All it will do is make the horn heavier, and make two notes better in tune (and one of those is never played, except by Blooo! [Low F])I'd rather have a lightweight 3-valve instrument with some "minor adjustments." :) If you're going to add 4th valve, then make the horn in C, and make the bore bigger, and add 4th valve. I can't stress enough how imprtant it is to keep the horn light and balanced (like the 3V YAM). Don't make me get out my spreadsheet...;) Agrees with this. I used 4th valve once. ONCE. I marched for two years and used it ONCE. 4th valve- not worth it. In the concert hall maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhs alumni Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 plenty of corps besides Bluecoats use the low F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphanasia Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) ...and if it only gets 2 more notes in tune (F/C), who cares? Why add all that weight? The only good note below Low F is Low D (234), and how well does that travel outside? Sure, soft moments, you can hear it. F# still sux. E still sux. Eb sux. Db sux. (EDIT: forget about C and B!) I say "Booooo" to any logic that says "just add a 4th valve." If they don't make any of the slides real-time adjustable, I don't care. All it will do is make the horn heavier, and make two notes better in tune (and one of those is never played, except by Blooo! [Low F])I'd rather have a lightweight 3-valve instrument with some "minor adjustments." :) If you're going to add 4th valve, then make the horn in C, and make the bore bigger, and add 4th valve. I can't stress enough how imprtant it is to keep the horn light and balanced (like the 3V YAM). Don't make me get out my spreadsheet...;) Thanks for keeping things in perspective, Bob. Please... put your spreadsheets away! ...or just show them to someone else, I've already seen them (or at least heard them from you) Also, wouldn't that 4th valve possibly put the low B and E more in tune... (2+4 rather than 1+2+3) (not that those notes are used) Edited December 16, 2008 by Euphanasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhs alumni Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Also, wouldn't that 4th valve possibly put the low B and E more in tune... (2+4 rather than 1+2+3) (not that those notes are used)worked for us when i marched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACMellos2010 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 How often do corps change out their lines now days?? We played the same line of King bugles throughout our entire existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Thanks for keeping things in perspective, Bob. Please... put your spreadsheets away! ...or just show them to someone else, I've already seen them (or at least heard them from you)Also, wouldn't that 4th valve possibly put the low B and E more in tune... (2+4 rather than 1+2+3) (not that those notes are used) Yes, of course, but only in a sense that "more in tune" means "closer" to the goal. (For my money, it's in tune or it's not...no such thing as "more or less" in tune within a defined context, such as Western Music based on Harmonic Series) Sooooo, without getting out my spreadsheet, I'll tell you that B played (123) requires ~4.5" of "slidepull" somewhere (extra ~9" needed), assuming 1V tuned to perfect Ab, 2V to A, and 3V to G. With B played (24), assuming the 4V is tuned to perfect F, and 2V is tuned to perfect A, you need 2" of slidepull (4" total) added to the horn to get it in tune with Equal Temperament. I'm sure puffy-chested tuba players here will say "so what? Did it for years; Just lip it; that's life, blah blah blah" I get all that. I play tuba for cryin' out loud. I've never played anything but Contra in drum corps. But I'm first and foremost a bass trombone player, who gets EVERY NOTE for "free" by blowing straight through the horn and altering its length slightly as needed. It makes for a cleaner sound. Professional Tuba instruments have more valves, and/or a real-time way of easily changing the 1st valve slide length or the 3rd valve length. I don't want more valves on a marching instrument...this is drum corps, not Alpine Symphony. But I *DO* want a real-time adjustable slide or two. Why hasn't that made it to the marching side? So I'm on a mission to get Tuba manufacturers up to speed with that concpet. To hell with 4th valve, I say. Gimme real-time adjustable 3rd valve, up to 4.5" and I'm fine. The horn will be lighter and cheaper, sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 But I *DO* want a real-time adjustable slide or two. Why hasn't that made it to the marching side? It has. There's an adjustable left-hand tuning slide on a trigger on one particular marching contra/tuba. The horn in question? <wait for it> The Jupiter Quantum 5080S marching tuba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 It has. There's an adjustable left-hand tuning slide on a trigger on one particular marching contra/tuba. The horn in question?<wait for it> The Jupiter Quantum 5080S marching tuba. It's not described anywhere, such as how far the throw is, and whether it's an "all-or-nothing" throw-type trigger (If it's all-or-nothing it's uselss...kind of like that added valve on the KINGS) If the throw is directly proportional to the amount of distance the trigger moves, and if it can move 4.5" then it's useful. Anything else is limited, but a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 If the throw is directly proportional to the amount of distance the trigger moves, and if it can move 4.5" then it's useful. It is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I snipped a lot of important stuff and then you said this... Professional Tuba instruments have more valves, and/or a real-time way of easily changing the 1st valve slide length or the 3rd valve length. I don't want more valves on a marching instrument...this is drum corps, not Alpine Symphony. But I *DO* want a real-time adjustable slide or two. Why hasn't that made it to the marching side?So I'm on a mission to get Tuba manufacturers up to speed with that concpet. To hell with 4th valve, I say. Gimme real-time adjustable 3rd valve, up to 4.5" and I'm fine. The horn will be lighter and cheaper, sheesh. Funny you should mention it because Academy is playing the Alpine Symphony on Jupiter Marching Tubas this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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