Would DCI allow a For-Profit corps?

[jplattSCV]

No. A corps like that goes counter to what DCI is supposed to be for. Besides, they'd probably get little to no fan support anyways because they're basically buying the championship.

They would would get nothing but antagonism from DCI fans. This is basically what people thought of Star when they were around. Obviously, Star was not a professional corps in any sense, but they were treated as if they were. They were the spoiled rich kids of drum corps. (No, I don't believe this to be true. This was just the stearotype). There were always rumors that they had sleeper sofas on thee busses, masseurs on tour with them, and paid roadies to move their equipment around. Non of this was true but the rumors flew anyway. I remember fooling one of our younger and most gullible members in SCV '92 that Bill Cook had bought our Santa Clara practice field and turned it into a parking lot while we were on a mini tour to the midwest in the early part of that season. We had him convinced that Cook had done that so we would not have anywhere to practice when we got back home. It was a brilliant move aimed at getting that elusive repeat.

If a professional corps were even remotely good, they would be treated so badly that noone would want to see them perform. It would not last more than one season and it would be a bad memory for all involved.

[sky]

Liam,

Thanks for the compliment. I agree, this is an interesting topic: lots of detail and specifics like corps programs but not just based on opinion as are so many of the other posts about "who's the best___, etc."

Your last post, the list, was great. As an example of how complicated these things can get, I used to work for the Corning Museum of Glass which is a non-profit organization separate from the Corning, Inc., the corporation. It's located on corporate property and physically connected to the Steuben Factory, a for profit division of Corning. Most of the museum's funding came from the corporation (great showcase for the corp.) but legally it was a separate entity so all the contributions were deductible. Steuben lost money regularly (maybe still does) but they kept it going because it really defined the art of lead crystal glass and kept Corning a leader in the art glass world. There also used to be a third entity in the building, The Glass Center, which as another corporate division sold glass, gifts and food but that has since been "given" to the museum because it wasn't very profitable. Visitors generally didn't know or care about the legal and operational distinctions but it sure effected the employees (and members!) and operations. BTW, it's a much better place now and a great place to visit.

SKY

[sky]

Hey Steve, kinda remember having this discussion with someone years ago about one of the Armys musical groups. Think the funding for Armed Forces musical groups falls under "Publicity" which means it's the same pots of money used to put "US Army" on the NASCAR racers. Forget how the Service Academies fund trips for their Drum Corps.

Geesh, too bad Cindy Crawford isn't on line right now as she grew up with a lot of this.

Hi, Jim,

Well, I believe all the services are pretty much the same, but I'm certain that in the USAF all the "members" are regular enlistees except for the USAF Academy corps which is comprised of cadets. In DC, we flew regular AF aircraft (some good, some bad), had our own tour busses and, above our regular pay, we were paid per diem for tours and travel. Our "Squadron" had its own PR guy, recording production, announcer/MC, and road crew. Generally the publicity part was handled by the local or regional newspapers who "sponsored" the performances which had to be free (our tax $$$ at work, ya know!).

I'd guess that there are entirely separate units to handle TV and radio commercials, websites, etc. and probably another one that handles those NASCAR and other sponsorships, too. It's not like they have budget problems! I'd bet they have separate chains of command regardless of the branch of service.

Steve

[boxingfred]

In 1977 The corps I marched with, The Columbians from Washington, DC was a for profit corps. Every kid (128) in the corps from age 13-21 got paid as part of the Summer Jobs programs in Washington, DC. I was too young to get paid, but talented enough to make the corps. My older brother and I marched, he dropped out for medical reasons. The director, (My uncle) let me collect his check. I remember, $333.12 every two weeks from June to August to march Drum Corps! I was Rich! The only problem was we were occasionally obligated to march in city sanctioned events which sometimes landed on big show days. So in 1977 we missed DCI east, Drum corps Eastern Championship and other key drum corps events to march in city parades. Could a profit corps beat a non-profit corps? We beat the Buxmont Raiders, Chancellors, Chessmen, Va Cardinals, etc... We could not beat the Crossmen or Blackwatch. But we had money to spend after the show!

Edited December 24, 2008 by boxingfred

[Robert Kirby]

Generally the publicity part was handled by the local or regional newspapers who "sponsored" the performances which had to be free (our tax $$$ at work, ya know!).

Steve

Just wanted to relay something vaguely funny re publlicity in local papers.

In, umm, 1981 or 1982 my high school band arranged a really great day of clinics for our jazz and concert bands. Stan Mark from the Maynard Ferguson big-band did a clinic for an hour or two, then some cats from the Air Force Band of Flight broke out with various sections. There may have been an Army Reserve or Regular Army ensmble, I don't remember. Then we broke for lunch. After lunch, Maynard came in from another school to do his clinc and then the Band of Flight, with special guests Stan Mark and MF did a concert.

At the time we had two weekly community papers. One of got a little scrambled in their headline. Somehow "Armed Forces Band to Play" plus "Air Force Band to Play" plus "Army Band to Play" combined to become...

"Army Forces Band to Play." Priceless!!

Robert

[sky]

In 1977 The corps I marched with, The Columbians from Washington, DC was a for profit corps. Every kid (128) in the corps from age 13-21 got paid as part of the Summer Jobs programs in Washington, DC. I was too young to get paid, but talented enough to make the corps. My older brother and I marched, he dropped out for medical reasons. The director, (My uncle) let me collect his check. I remember, $333.12 every two weeks from June to August to march Drum Corps! I was Rich! The only problem was we were occasionally obligated to march in city sanctioned events which sometimes landed on big show days. So in 1977 we missed DCI east, Drum corps Eastern Championship and other key drum corps events to march in city parades. Could a profit corps beat a non-profit corps? We beat the Buxmont Raiders, Chancellors, Chessmen, Va Cardinals, etc... We could not beat the Crossmen or Blackwatch. But we had money to spend after the show!

So, Boxingfred, your uncle's name wouldn't happen to be JoJo, would it? Who were the instructors?

Wasn't your corps fully funded through the city rather than for profit? A unique situation, I think.

Did you ever hear of the VIPs? Royal Sabres? They were "a bit" before your time but both were quite good, too.

SKY

[JimF-LowBari]

Hi, Jim,

Well, I believe all the services are pretty much the same, but I'm certain that in the USAF all the "members" are regular enlistees except for the USAF Academy corps which is comprised of cadets. In DC, we flew regular AF aircraft (some good, some bad), had our own tour busses and, above our regular pay, we were paid per diem for tours and travel. Our "Squadron" had its own PR guy, recording production, announcer/MC, and road crew. Generally the publicity part was handled by the local or regional newspapers who "sponsored" the performances which had to be free (our tax $$$ at work, ya know!).

I'd guess that there are entirely separate units to handle TV and radio commercials, websites, etc. and probably another one that handles those NASCAR and other sponsorships, too. It's not like they have budget problems! I'd bet they have separate chains of command regardless of the branch of service.

Steve

LMAO, well I wasn't awake when I posted last night. I was thinking about the service corps I've seen and TOTALLY forgot about the background you, Bob Z and KB had with Bolling Field.

I'm still trying to remember the details from when the Air Force Academy used to come to the Harrisburg (Forum) standstill in the 70s/80s. Heavens knows Westshore wasn't footing the bill for 2 or 3 cargo planes to fly the corps east. One year Gramm/Rudman cut the budget under either Carter or Reagan and no corps for a while.

Edit: Just noticed the "per diem" part. I've done enough travel for the Navy at Mechanicsburg so understand that. Too bad I've never gotten TDY $$$ for doing Drum Corps.

Edited December 24, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[PhantomPhanatic]

More power to them, and DCI should let them. DCI has no room to be picky with what - 23 World Class Corps (only 21 of which are going on tour again?)

I don't think this would ever happen - but if it did - and if DCI was smart - they'd be stupid to not include them. I probably wouldn't accept "donations" from the corps though -- that might be stretching it.

Edited December 24, 2008 by PhantomPhanatic

[Liam]

More power to them, and DCI should let them. DCI has no room to be picky with what - 23 World Class Corps (only 21 of which are going on tour again?)

I don't think this would ever happen - but if it did - and if DCI was smart - they'd be stupid to not include them. I probably wouldn't accept "donations" from the corps though -- that might be stretching it.

Again -- point is that it's not DCI's call to "let them" or "not include them". It's tax law that governs this. If DCI itself were a for-profit organization, then you'd definitely see more of this of the type of things already mentioned in this thread.

Back to sky's post about Corning -- interesting, complicated stuff there. The main point to get out of all that is that the not-for-profit museum GETS its money from the for-profit corporation, but SPENDS its money related to its not-for-profit mission. Not-for-profits can get their money from anywhere ... where organizations get in trouble is when they spend or allocate their money to for-profits (or others that don't share their mission). This is what would be the problem here -- a not-for-profit DCI allocating monies to for-profit corps.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Liam

[CasualFan]

In 1977 The corps I marched with, The Columbians from Washington, DC was a for profit corps. Every kid (128) in the corps from age 13-21 got paid as part of the Summer Jobs programs in Washington, DC. I was too young to get paid, but talented enough to make the corps. My older brother and I marched, he dropped out for medical reasons. The director, (My uncle) let me collect his check. I remember, $333.12 every two weeks from June to August to march Drum Corps! I was Rich! The only problem was we were occasionally obligated to march in city sanctioned events which sometimes landed on big show days. So in 1977 we missed DCI east, Drum corps Eastern Championship and other key drum corps events to march in city parades. Could a profit corps beat a non-profit corps? We beat the Buxmont Raiders, Chancellors, Chessmen, Va Cardinals, etc... We could not beat the Crossmen or Blackwatch. But we had money to spend after the show!

The Summer Jobs program is federally and state funded. You probably were not paid by the corps but a local social services agency. At least, that is how it works where I live. The Summer Youth program here populates the Parks and Recreation Department and a local university with high school employees but they are paid by the Community Action Committee which is the public agency that administers the program locally.

IIRC, the employers do not receive any monetary benefit so I don't think a drum corps could function this way now (maybe in SoCal) with all of the associated costs. Also, child labor laws have drastically changed in the last 30 years. If possible, it would be a good way to start a community-based corps.

Edited December 25, 2008 by CasualFan