Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have to admit, I didn't read all 200+ of the previous pages or posts so if I am redundant, I will apologize now. I am not sure how many people posting here are old enough to remember when synths hit mainstream music within bands like the Moody Blues, ELO, Devo to name a few off the top of my head...late seventies, early eighties and many musicians hated the sound and/or thought that synths would put them out of business since they could imitate the different sounds of the instruments. Later, we all found, that even though synths could imitate the sounds, they could not replace the nuance of the performer of those instruments. Also, we learned to integrate the electronics to balance the music, not replace it. From what I have seen and heard, live and on the Fan Network, this is where the corps are now. They haven't quite worked out all the bugs integrating the synths into their sound. I have watched drum corps evolve from marching bells and timps, to integrating a pit, which at first I dispised (thinking that was an orchestral move and had nothing to do with marching). The pit grew on me because I finally got over what I perceived as a distraction at the front of the field to enjoying the new tambers and textures the pit added to the musical performance. Now the only complaint I have with the synthesizers (but I still have this complaint when it comes to pit) is that sometimes the sound guy has the pit mikes up to loud. It seems, and again, this is my opinion, that all aspects of the corps sound should blend seamlessly. For example, I have witnessed rehearsals where the brass head is yelling at the first trumpets because one person is sticking out in the ensemble. Well, since the advent of mikes in the pit and now the synths, that is what is akins to, one moment you hear the brass and percussion, then you hear the pit (including synth). I would prefer to hear a corps as one cohesive ensemble. Again, this is just my opinion. Rush is a perfect example of this. they got all kinds of synth heavy in the mid 80s...and by the 90's, while they used them for those songs already done, really, they havent been used much since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Oh, dear....you must have been a band in 1974, then. As you improved, you then became a drum corps. actually these days, many band circuits have it in place you cant score below 60. and in 74 Westshore was so bad they were...well...alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 LMAO... what I keep thinking myself when I read the 'DC is defined by excellence' posts.....BITD there was a baseball player called Minny Minoso(sp?) who somehow go to be pegged the "average" baseball player. Some comedian went off on that and said each morning other 'average' players would read the batting averages to find the "Minoso line" (IOW - Minnys BA). If they were above the line (better than Minny) then they wer OK. If below the 'Minoso line' then they sucked. So is 67.35 the "Minoso line" for Drum Corps? Mendoza line. .200 batting average is the line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.morgus Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Responding to the experience/excellence points discussed by SoA99, Kusan, jeff, et al....Just remembered another reason for the 'generation gap' between newer and older fans, the lack of local corps. A large number of these corps didn't fall in the 100% 'excellence' definition of DC but they were there and they did provide a good experience for the members and the audience. People who can only relate to todays DCI or only have seen or heard the Top 12 have only seen corps that are at the top of their game. Reason why I never include 'excellence' in any difference between MB and DC is because I have seen 'less than excellent' on the field (saw it from the field a while too). But... some of my favorite shows were from these lesser corps because of the effort needed to get even a last place corps on the field. And even if those corps were dirty, lot of them still showed the drive. Very true. Although it will certainly show which side of the "gap" I come from, this post reminds me of the mission statements that would appear in many of programs sold at these local corps' contests. These would often be incorporated into the "Welcome to our show" or "thanks for coming" page and be a message from the heads of the sponsoring institution of the home corps. I don't recall ever seeing a reference to them having started a Jr. corps out of a desire for their kids to "win", or even for them to be "good" or "excellent". Mostly, they spoke of a wish to provide a venue and activity for the youth of their town or parish to learn to strive. To strive for excellence whether or not they ever achieved it. Certainly folks rooted for their team, and loved to see them judged to be superior to the competition, but defining their existence based on excellence was far from what most of these founders were looking for. It was rarely, at least for the home folks, a criteria for judging the success of their programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofAtlanta99 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Again, that's not what I said. They are being hurt by not using a synth...most certainly. Once again, you cannot get credit for something if you do not field it. DCI makes rules to move the activity forward. If you don't use these rules you are perceived as not moving the activity forward and this is accomplished easily through the buildup score method and training of the judges under the new rules. I can't help those that have been failed by this education system if they can't grasp this concept of reality. Interesting observation on your part there....considering you did actually say Phantom wasn't doing better than they are because they aren't using electronics. The education system has nothing to do with this debate at this point. The system didn't teach you willful ignorance, that's something you've achieved all by yourself. If you say that drum corps shows are better without the electronics and a corps doesn't use electronics, then by your own assessment that corps will score better--right? You are arguing with yourself when on the one hand you say "a corps isn't doing well because they haven't implemented electronics", and on the other "electronics aren't needed, the shows would be better without them". If you are using the "build-up" system as opposed to the "tic" for your analysis, did you take into the consideration that those corps who are using the electronics don't get points for just having them on the field, they do in fact have to use them effectively. So, it would make more sense to me that if a corps doesn't have to worry about effectively using electronics in their show and it isn't a required element, then that corps could spend more time dealing with what's actually on the field--giving them more time to get better at those things(drill, drumline, hornline and guard). With Phantom, the recaps appear to be saying that their guard isn't quiet there yet and that's difference for them within their competitive circle. What does not having electronics have to do with their guard score, because all the other captions seems pretty good to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) and in 74 Westshore was so bad they were...well...alive. I'd say we left a mark... And we made the Racine Boys of '76 very happy at '74 DCA Prelims. Couple of them were surprised/schocked that they actually beat someone (IOW - us). The background is the corps disbanded after 1972 season and was inactive all of 1973. The goal for 1974 was to compete at DCA Prelims just to let everyone know that the corps was back and get a better starting point for 1975. (Man would having the Internet helped. We were at our own show and people in the stands were like: "WTF, thought they kaput". ) So making comments about being bad that year isn't really an insult..... more of an inside joke for a few.... So to be more on-topic: going by a score might not be the whole story.... *sigh* Still waiting for that DVD..... Edited July 16, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 if the electronics are listed on the sheets ( anyone have an 09 sheet to show us?) then you almost have to have it...if not, you're missing a part of the sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofAtlanta99 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Very true.Although it will certainly show which side of the "gap" I come from, this post reminds me of the mission statements that would appear in many of programs sold at these local corps' contests. These would often be incorporated into the "Welcome to our show" or "thanks for coming" page and be a message from the heads of the sponsoring institution of the home corps. I don't recall ever seeing a reference to them having started a Jr. corps out of a desire for their kids to "win", or even for them to be "good" or "excellent". Mostly, they spoke of a wish to provide a venue and activity for the youth of their town or parish to learn to strive. To strive for excellence whether or not they ever achieved it. Certainly folks rooted for their team, and loved to see them judged to be superior to the competition, but defining their existence based on excellence was far from what most of these founders were looking for. It was rarely, at least for the home folks, a criteria for judging the success of their programs. So drum corps offers a variety of things for the members and spectators. It's the variety that causes all us to have "different" reasons for marching drum corps and/or being a specator. For a lot of you it seems that electronics totally undid your love for the activity, but then for a lot of others it could have enhanced their love for the activity. Hurt feelings seem to account for the spiteful attitudes for some. Note: Unless my last statement "called you out" there is no need to respond because I wasn't referring to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So drum corps offers a variety of things for the members and spectators. It's the variety that causes all us to have "different" reasons for marching drum corps and/or being a specator. For a lot of you it seems that electronics totally undid your love for the activity, but then for a lot of others it could have enhanced their love for the activity. Hurt feelings seem to account for the spiteful attitudes for some. Note: Unless my last statement "called you out" there is no need to respond because I wasn't referring to you. here's the thing....on here, in the stands...i dont hear this groundswell, this mass voice of people shouting how electronics has made drum corps that much better. I heard high school kids.....the DCI target range of fans...laughing at it and calling it dumb and cheesy. a direct quote: "wow, thats every bad band we laughed at at championships last year" person quoted: 16/17 year old kid proudly wearing his bands gear. not a top band either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofAtlanta99 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 if the electronics are listed on the sheets ( anyone have an 09 sheet to show us?) then you almost have to have it...if not, you're missing a part of the sheet How could it be listed on the sheet as a separate caption, if it's in the show and is also effective then yes it will help the effect, but if you don't have it you don't get counted off for it. So, I guess the corps that are using them are the ones taking the biggest risk because if they use them ineffectively it takes away from the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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