Michael Klesch arranging for Crown

[jamesjones0611]

Michael is an organ major, not vocal.

[Derek Smith]

Very interesting thread. I'm not a brass guy, so I can't really comment on the arranging, but I was in the front ensemble for the last 4 years at Crown, and I feel like I can comment on Klesch.

He's one of the most (if not the most) well-spoken people I've ever met. I was always very glad when he showed up on tour for a while, and my impression of him will always be that he's the most intelligent (and humble) person I've ever met -- he made me feel smarter when I listened to him speak, and it was really a pleasure to be around him though I probably never had a real conversation with the guy.

Anyways, I'm not trying to make him sound too much like the Buddha, but he's definitely a great guy and should already be in the hall-of-fame.

[Crown 03-06]

I have to agree with Derek.

I learned an extraordinary amount from Mr. Klesch, the least of which actually related to music. He is an amazing arranger, an amazing teacher, and an even better person (The same can be said for Matt Harloff but he deserves his own thread).

There have been a lot of amazing and talented people involved at Crown over the past several years (Mr. Klesch, Matt Harloff, Jim Coates, Michael Townsend, Leon May, etc.) and you can't point to one of them as the exact reason for the corps success as it is truly a team effort at Crown, but the corps would not be where it is at today with Mr. Klesch.

[Medeabrass]

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So who does this all remind me of? Many from the 80's but mostly Star.

Who else? Garfield ......... and Avant Garde.

I really wonder how much influence Donnie VanDoren has had in Michael Klesch .. or vice versa.

Notice any other old school methods he is using? Please feel free to point them out.

If you don't have access to APD's or VOD's .... get them.

Please keep discussion to arranging methods and differences between methods used today vs. yesteryear.

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AND someone help me out with some Klesch / VanDoren history. How long have they been hooked up and how far back? I know they have been on staff a bunch together. I know about DM in 83 Garfield and then on to Star. What else did I miss before computers connected to duh intrawebz?

I'd say Jim Prime is a bigger influence on Klesch than Donnie. As I understand it, Michael was in the Cadets drumline when Jimmer was arranging and while Donnie was their brass caption head. I know Donnie and Jimmer left the Cadets after '84 and I'm a little fuzzy on when they got there ('81 I sounds right). I honestly don't know the exact years that Klesch was marching but I do know he was there in a marching capacity somewhere between '81 and '84 and I believe he wrote the book in '85. I don't think Michael was ever on staff with Star.

Michael and Jimmer have very similar styles so I imagine that's why you hear the similarities with Star. Also, the approach to the instrument that Matt Harloff has implemented at Crown is very similar to Star's (although I think Matt has taken it to another exciting level). Currently, Jimmer will come and give the Crown staff some pointers from time to time when they're out east, but I'm not sure if he gives any arranging advice to Mr. Klesch. Donnie (as far as I've been able to observe over the years) is the type who takes what he's given (the arrangement), puts his head down, and goes to work. I don't even know if he made suggestions back in the day on what parts should be hosed down. In my observation, he tends to take a hands off approach to the book and allows the "experts" to do their thing (behind the scenes I have no idea). They set him loose, and he gets the members to play the product the way the arranger desires IMO...but this was strictly "back in the day." as far as I know, the brassline is Matt's baby and he's doing an outstanding job. Klesch, Donnie, and Matt Harloff have been on staff at Crown together since 2003 or 2004.

I am by no means a music theorist so I can't help you out much more than giving you history and by saying that the approach currently used by Crown is very similar to Cadets '81-'84 and Star '86 and '88-'93.

[Medeabrass]

On the first part, I wonder how much time he is spending with Crown now that he's involved with Blue Stars?

Second part, the 83-85 Garfield hornlines were master technicians. I remember hearing the stories when I marched there in 90 from Shorty Bartholemew. Shorty was definitely the technical kinda of guy. Slam the fingers, breathe dah, everyone plays, hammer hammer hammer. But Frank Williams was the "LISTEN" guy. I would say the 3pete years were very technical hornlines but not necessarily musical at "all times". But they did have some moments. I think the formula has changed over the years but there are still some fundamentals. Breathe dah, everyone plays, fast fingers, overtones on every note. The one thing I think Garfield was missing at times (back then) was tone quality. That was sometimes sacrificed for executing precision. That also gave them a unique sound for the time.

Donnie has been in a consultant capacity to Crown all along. Mainly advising Matt, staying in the background observing, and occasionally interfacing with the kids. I think he wants it to be clear that the line belongs to Matt. I do know that Donnie's dream is to "coach the coaches" hence, splitting his time between Crown and Blue Stars. Last year, it was Crown, Blue Stars, and SCV. I think he hopes there will be some healthy competition between the lines he's involved in some day.

I think the '82-'84 Cadet lines had amazing tone quality especially when you take into account what pieces of crap they were playing on. Those instruments just looked like they wouldn't sound good lol. I actually hear a big difference between the '84 and '85 lines...and maybe it's cuz I'm biased but I think it's because Donnie and Jimmer weren't there anymore.

I didn't know Shorty was with Cadets in '90. I thought he was at Star for some reason. I've heard horror stories about that tough some beeech lol.

[jjeffeory]

I am by no means a music theorist so I can't help you out much more than giving you history and by saying that the approach currently used by Crown is very similar to Cadets '81-'84 and Star '86 and '88-'93.

Off topic:

Didn't Mason arrange much of the Star '87 show?

[Medeabrass]

Well, that is interesting... I am very happy to hear that there are still some corps getting instruction from this group of people.

...so by extension, who is the arranger for Blue Stars? Does their show have any of this "old school" arranging? Have they gotten enough time under the system to get "that sound"?

I don't think they're there yet, but think about it now, maybe they had "the sound" a bit last year.

I'm not trying to get OT, but this connection is significant and Prime is my all time favorite drum corps arranger. Klesch has reminded me of Prime the past few years and I assumed it was because of VanDoren working there.

Blue Stars arranger doesn't quite remind me of Klesch or Prime, but the hornline has moments of sounding like a VanDoren line ( meant in the best way, of course).

Frank Sullivan does the arranging for Blue Stars. He's Star of Indiana '91-Blast years. He was a soloist and was in charge of the hornline (can't remember the exact title) while with blast! The dude is an amazing player. When I heard some of his original compositions while at our 2004 reunion I was floored and knew I was going to be hearing people in DCI singing his praises. One hell of a talented and fun guy.

[Medeabrass]

Off topic:

Didn't Mason arrange much of the Star '87 show?

uggh...that's what I've heard. Actually, Jimmer did most of the arranging that year but Donnie was not there. '87 became the year that "shan't be named" among Star alums who went through it. I often wonder how much faster Star's hornlines would've progressed had Donnie been there. Oh and on a related topic, Donnie and Jimmer were with the Troopers in '85. I've heard that was a great year for them.

[Medeabrass]

It makes me wonder how much drill staging has to do with it .. and how much is actually the arranging. Let's say they play an equal part ... but I'll say another contributing factor is actually the low brass horns themselves (not the players). That said, how does Crown, Blue Stars (kinda) and Phantom manage to have such a phat bottom end and maintain that deep rich sound in all sections?

I think a very large part of the what you're talking about is approach AND instrumentation. All you have to do is look at how many contras and euphs these corps put on the field to see how much they appreciate fat bottoms...mmmmm meee tooo.

I can't remember the Blue Stars' brass caption heads name off hand. I think he may have marched Cadets when Donnie and Frank were teaching there in the late 90's but I am positive he was in Blast! I have seen the guy work in person and he is very impressive and enthusiastic. He is very much teaching the techniques that VanDoren espouses. The Blue Stars have a great one in him. I hope they keep him around.

[Medeabrass]

It would be great to hear some Prime arrangements from Crown, or Vanguard, or even the Cavaliers. His ability to write around the incomplete two-valve bugles cannot be overstated. He was able to write within a comfortable range in the "heart" of each instrument. As a performer, you felt that he must have written the book around "your part."

Dude, this is so true. He loved to write for the "wheelhouse" of each instrument. It was great arranging even though I always loved playing in the upper extremes of my instrument (bari/euph) and I loved to hear screaming sops lol...what I didn't know at first is that this is one reason why his lines were able to play so loud and with great control at the same time. Also, the screaming sop parts (if there ever were any) were treated more like icing on top of the cake as opposed to being the cake.