Michael Klesch arranging for Crown

[BillH]

Hey Bill...thanks for posting that. I'm always curious to hear stories about the "dynamic duo" of Donnie and Jimmer when they were with Cadets. Donnie was known to play recordings of you guys to give the star-folk an idea of what true excellence was. Donnie was scary enough as it was (especially without saying anything) when I was with Star but I've heard stories about the grief he used to give you guys...hilarious actually... For some reason, when I'm reminiscing with my buddies, the days we got our azzzes handed to us in the most creatively awful ways, those are the memories that make us laugh till our sides hurt and the tears start flowing. I'd love to hear more from your experience either here or through IM on what they were like and what the technique and approach was back then (was he preaching the breath dah mantra yet?). I rarely hear you guys comment on Donnie/Jimmer discussions and maybe that's cuz us Star guys are too loud ;)

Well Donnie was using breathe-dah when I arrived at the first camp for 1983 and never wavered. Jimmer was definitely the phrase shape/emotional content of the music guy. I think that the strength of the pair lay in Jimmer's excellence in arranging, and imparting musicality, coupled with Donnie's RELENTLESS pursuit of excellence and uniformity. Donnie NEVER let ANYTHING get by him. He was always standing there in his dark glasses, head down, listening. We got to the point that if we made a mistake (for all three years I marched, even after Donnie was gone), we would just set our horns down and run (or do the obligatory pushups), BEFORE his arm came up with the point to the source of the mistake (which always came).

I remember Donnie making one mellophone player play his part for the line standing on a wobbling table. When this guy, who had always been afraid to play in front of the line, nailed his part, we all broke into loud applause. He also had the staff walking through ensemble and run-throughs sticking a cassette recorder in people's bells after announcing their name. The tapes would then be played for the whole line, so everyone heard how you were doing. There was NO HIDING in a Van Doren hornline. Heaven forbid he caught you sitting out a few bars!

My favorite memory, of Donnie however, was in Miami in 1983, the night before prelims (or semi-finals as it would now be called). He had been on us about blend and dynamics and flawless ppp attacks in the Amighty Father chorale all season long. But by finals week, we were playing at a whole new level. He had us play the chorale, and had no criticism to make. He then defied us to do it again, softer and better. Klesch took us through it and, without saying a word, Donnie dropped down and gave the line 20 pushups. It was the ultimate sign of respect and thanks for fully buying into and executing his program.

There are some other great instructors out there from that era, but the only ones that created hornlines like the Jimmer/Donnie combination were Wayne Downey and Jack Meehan. I had the opportunity to work with Jack at Crossmen in 1991 and it was a real treat. Interesting how different his approach was. The one major similarity was that Jack also caught everything.

[dannyboy]

Boerma hasn't arranged for them going on three years now. He left when Scouts parted ways with Sal Salas. He's currently arranging for some corps - Spirit, methinks?

I thought Boerma did one more after "Carmen"?

He did about half of Kilties' 2008 show, designed/directed by Scott Stewart. Rick Kirby wrote the other half.

Crown is great. Yep.

[supersop]

I remember Donnie making one mellophone player play his part for the line standing on a wobbling table. When this guy, who had always been afraid to play in front of the line, nailed his part, we all broke into loud applause. He also had the staff walking through ensemble and run-throughs sticking a cassette recorder in people's bells after announcing their name. The tapes would then be played for the whole line, so everyone heard how you were doing. There was NO HIDING in a Van Doren hornline. Heaven forbid he caught you sitting out a few bars!

My favorite memory, of Donnie however, was in Miami in 1983, the night before prelims (or semi-finals as it would now be called). He had been on us about blend and dynamics and flawless ppp attacks in the Amighty Father chorale all season long. But by finals week, we were playing at a whole new level. He had us play the chorale, and had no criticism to make. He then defied us to do it again, softer and better. Klesch took us through it and, without saying a word, Donnie dropped down and gave the line 20 pushups. It was the ultimate sign of respect and thanks for fully buying into and executing his program.

I had a similar experience with Frank Williams in 1990 the week of finals. He had the upper brass that day and ticked ensemble and the run. He would just pick a spot and stand there on the field about 5 ft away from your bell as you went past with his eyes bugged out looking at the ground ....... deeply concentrating on tone, blend, intonation, phrasing, tick tick tick tick. I think he followed the lead sops for the entire opener (Candide) and I think his only response after the last note was ........... "ARE YOU KIDDING ME". Then he kinda mumbled to himself with a giddiness and walking in circles super fast ... like he had just lost his cherry. Shorty was more vocal about his pleasure throughout the season .... I think his favorite phrase spouted from the scaffold even back at move in was, "You guys are ####### nuts ..... you sick little B###ards!"

It seemed I always had a cassette recorder in my face the entire time I marched. It's no surprise that every corps started picking up on this technique and calling out the individual players. You truly understood that you were constantly being judged and that excellent was paramount every second you were breathing and awake. Great techniques to teaching from the old school crew. I've watched many modern day rehearsals and have yet to see the same type of fire, focus and brutal honesty from todays instructors. Sure they'll call out a tick, but the kids aren't going to feel like GOD just pointed down from the skies and stripped them bare to their souls. I think the intimidation is really missing these days and it's healthy to use as a tool. Funny thing is, intimidation is only earned through respect and admiration. hmmmmmmmmmmmm

The best part about that entire process, was when you stepped up and shoved it in their face after being called out or knowing they're hawking you ... looking for anything to tick. It's very empowering when you embrace their eye and ears and just ram it down their throat. Puts hair on your chest.

[Medeabrass]

Well Donnie was using breathe-dah when I arrived at the first camp for 1983 and never wavered. Jimmer was definitely the phrase shape/emotional content of the music guy. I think that the strength of the pair lay in Jimmer's excellence in arranging, and imparting musicality, coupled with Donnie's RELENTLESS pursuit of excellence and uniformity. Donnie NEVER let ANYTHING get by him. He was always standing there in his dark glasses, head down, listening. We got to the point that if we made a mistake (for all three years I marched, even after Donnie was gone), we would just set our horns down and run (or do the obligatory pushups), BEFORE his arm came up with the point to the source of the mistake (which always came).

I remember Donnie making one mellophone player play his part for the line standing on a wobbling table. When this guy, who had always been afraid to play in front of the line, nailed his part, we all broke into loud applause. He also had the staff walking through ensemble and run-throughs sticking a cassette recorder in people's bells after announcing their name. The tapes would then be played for the whole line, so everyone heard how you were doing. There was NO HIDING in a Van Doren hornline. Heaven forbid he caught you sitting out a few bars!

My favorite memory, of Donnie however, was in Miami in 1983, the night before prelims (or semi-finals as it would now be called). He had been on us about blend and dynamics and flawless ppp attacks in the Amighty Father chorale all season long. But by finals week, we were playing at a whole new level. He had us play the chorale, and had no criticism to make. He then defied us to do it again, softer and better. Klesch took us through it and, without saying a word, Donnie dropped down and gave the line 20 pushups. It was the ultimate sign of respect and thanks for fully buying into and executing his program.

There are some other great instructors out there from that era, but the only ones that created hornlines like the Jimmer/Donnie combination were Wayne Downey and Jack Meehan. I had the opportunity to work with Jack at Crossmen in 1991 and it was a real treat. Interesting how different his approach was. The one major similarity was that Jack also caught everything.

Funny it sounds just like you were describing a rehearsal I was in. The running before he has a chance to say anything sounds familiar too ...I don't think we ever got to a point that we got him to do pushups. We did however, have Jimmer say "That's perfect. Let's move on." I never never ever thought I'd hear that.

[SACMellos2010]

Kind of made it much easier when a judge came in front of you during a show....

I remember either semi or finals night in 1991. We were cruising across the front about to play the mello lick from you know where at the end of Villa Borghese and Don Hill was standing there. I was so excited that he was going to be there to hear that.....we got a great smile out of him! When you get used to doing it for DVD and staff judges just don't raise a concern.

That is a far second to 20 pushups from DVD though

Edited July 13, 2009 by General Blunt

[CuriousMe]

I know zip about chord structure or progressions.

From a fan standpoint, I loved the mello parts that Jim Prime wrote and from a player standpoint, I loved the mello parts that Mike Klesch wrote. I guess it goes back to the poster who described it as the writing for the wheelhouse of the instrument. Our parts were in a range that just sang from the horn, and often just sat on top of the chords.

Back in the '80's the mid-range was often underutilized in many corps (just my opinion)...but not so with Prime's and Klesch's writing....they really used the voice to add to the music in both chords and all those fun wiggly counter-melody's and runs that we mid-range players love so much :=)

It was defiantly a big reason I wanted to march in Garfield....to play those parts, in those lines :-)

just my uneducated .02 :-)

Peace,

CuriousMe

[DcFr3aK]

Supersop,

I thank you soo much for starting this topic!!! It is refreshing to come in here and read about all of your experiences with some of the people I've had the privilege of learning from. It's just funny to read some of the experiences with Donnie and relating those to that of Matt Harloff and all the Crown staff!

There was a time where Matt was just so fed up with us when we were in Louisiana last year that he wanted us to run, you could see it in his eyes. He turned around and pointed and said, "Do you see that gas station over there?" and we said "No?" because there was literally nothing for miles, and all he said after that was, "Biiiiii"

It was the longest run I've had to do outside of running cross country in high school and college. But we got that part down, because never wanted to hear him say "Biiiii" like that ever again!

[HappyFeet]

I have nothing whatsoever to add to this topic or discussion. Just wanted to add my appreciation for an intelligent topic, discussed by adults, for adults. It's a pleasure to read and follow the discussion. Carry on!

[Medeabrass]

I know zip about chord structure or progressions.

From a fan standpoint, I loved the mello parts that Jim Prime wrote and from a player standpoint, I loved the mello parts that Mike Klesch wrote. I guess it goes back to the poster who described it as the writing for the wheelhouse of the instrument. Our parts were in a range that just sang from the horn, and often just sat on top of the chords.

Back in the '80's the mid-range was often underutilized in many corps (just my opinion)...but not so with Prime's and Klesch's writing....they really used the voice to add to the music in both chords and all those fun wiggly counter-melody's and runs that we mid-range players love so much :=)

It was defiantly a big reason I wanted to march in Garfield....to play those parts, in those lines :-)

just my uneducated .02 :-)

Peace,

CuriousMe

You reminded me of one the things I think may have influenced the early writing of Klesch and Prime. Ever notice how they loved to do those chromatic runs starting from the low brass going up to the sops? I think they were just showing off!!! They were doing what you weren't supposed to be able to do with a two valved instrument but they did it by utilizing the ensemble as a whole instead of individual instruments...just showing off their writing skills IMO

Speaking of utilizing the mid voices, I think Jimmer liked to utilize them so much cuz they (mellophones) were the best sounding bugles out there. The sops were crass but the mellos just rang out and if I'm not mistaken, were pretty easy to tune by bugle standards. The sop voices were just icing riding on top of the cake laid down by the mellos and lead baris. The euphs and the contras just provided the pan that held the whole thing together ;)

That is a far second to 20 pushups from DVD though

Brent, so I'm guessing you never saw DVD pushups either lol? What's the closest you remember to a compliment like that in your time? A no comment after a chunk was about as good as I remember lol.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Medeabrass

[supersop]

You reminded me of one the things I think may have influenced the early writing of Klesch and Prime. Ever notice how they loved to do those chromatic runs starting from the low brass going up to the sops? I think they were just showing off!!! They were doing what you weren't supposed to be able to do with a two valved instrument but they did it by utilizing the ensemble as a whole instead of individual instruments...just showing off their writing skills IMO

I liked doing it backward Actually I got to go both ways right in the middle (ok no comments on that one plz).

Speaking of utilizing the mid voices, I think Jimmer liked to utilize them so much cuz they (mellophones) were the best sounding bugles out there. The sops were crass but the mellos just rang out and if I'm not mistaken, were pretty easy to tune by bugle standards. The sop voices were just icing riding on top of the cake laid down by the mellos and lead baris. The euphs and the contras just provided the pan that held the whole thing together ;)

I really think these observations depended largely on 2 things.

1. The make and model of the horns. For instance, if you took PR's Buicks, some DEG Sop's with the horizontal tuning hook or Kanstul's, DEG Mello's any model and whatever those monster contra's Star had ... and that would be the perfect line. Flugels and French horns were also heavily utilized back then (which I miss greatly in the total sound). I'll come back to this in a second.

2. A hornline who had perfect ears. There are a few lines that I can point out, regardless of the horns they played on, that would play superbly in tune and with great tone quality.

1990 Cadets (a non-ballsy hornline playing on junk, but great musicians with great ears in that line ... check out Maria for sop production in sound quality)

1988 BD (other than one spot at the end of the opener when they were running)

1987 SCV (sans Russian Christmas Music due to overhype)

1989 PR (yes there were some crass spots but it was all out shrapnel for effect and it worked)

1986 Blue Devils (my #3 pick)

1984 Garfield (my #2 pick)

1993 Star would be the pinnacle.

More about Flugel's and Frenchies. This really added more depth and color to the old hornlines. I realize you can't really march Frenchies anymore due to drill demands, but what a sound. 1986 PR in 10th place with no mello's and all french horns ... not a great show but what a huge and girthy sound. Flugel's were usually used as a 3rd sop voice and added some sting to the mello's when needed. These were just a few tricks in the arsenal for Prime and Klesch that are no longer available. I am impressed that J.D. Shaw can duplicate the Frenchie sound at times by putting the lead Buicks in the upper register and same register as the mello's in the mid range. There was a spot in flower duet that I listened to over and over and over again and couldn't believe there weren't frenchies on the field.

The Meehaphone (created by Ziggy Kanstul and Jack Meehan) used by the Blue Devils from 1987-1991(?) were a french horn bell and mellophone body. Very unique sound that really filled up the mid range in a unique way. As Wayne Downey said, , "He (Meehan) wanted to design an instrument that combined the "edge" of the French horn with the darkness of the flugelhorn. Interesting that BD relied on this instrument as their entire midrange in some very very good years for their hornline. Two sounds and colors in voicing in one instrument, both sounds and colors no longer exist in drum corps.

I'll go way back to my first year in corps and quote one of the best brass instructors I've ever known. It was 1986 and Butch Marshall was our tech for Northern Aurora. It was a 24 member hornline that, man for man, was the best line I was ever in. Butch would preach to the sops that you aren't getting the correct sound out of a soprano until someone mistakes you for a mellophone. (Star 91 Intro comes to mind). I think Butch was right, and that's the way I always tried to play. I think this is where DVD was special, because you could hear when he wanted that dark lush sound out of the sops, and when he wanted the stadium pulverized. The genius was, he knew when to use each and how to get it from his lines. Great writers like Klesch and Prime really made it easy (to me anyway), but DVD always came through with the goods. Frank Williams was the only other person I can think of who really "GOT" Klesch's writing until the advent of Crown and their current great staff.

Edited July 14, 2009 by supersop