In The News: In Need Of $50,000, Oregon Crusaders Marching Band

[oldschooldbc]

What would happen if they made it halfway to Indianapolis only to realize that there was NO way to feed the corps unless people donated money on short notice? What would happen if NOBODY donated the money? Would these members all be stranded with nowhere to stay and nothing to eat?

Hey, there is certainly precedence for this. One corps that I was associated with (I will not name names) faced this exact scenario. They ran out of money while in Allentown for DCI East. The entire corps ate nothing but cereal and peanut butter, before they performed the show, and left for home.

So the bottom line is this: don't march drum corps, if you are allergic to peanuts or Captain Crunch!

Seriously - I am sure that most members of this forum have similar horror stories. Really, it is almost part-and-parcel of this activity. Everyone, at some point in time, was associated with a corps that had financial or organizational troubles.

What happens with these corps? Members suffer through an abbreviated or miserable tour, or there is no tour, and the fees are not refunded. Staff have their paychecks bounce, or they don't get them at all. Bus companies and grocery stores have their checks bounce. Embarrassing articles are run the the local paper.

We've seen it all before. We don't need to name names.

Let's at least credit the OC and Revo management, for not creating that type of debacle. They took a potentially bad situation, and made the very best of it. Maybe there was some flooding down in the river valley - but at least the dam didn't burst.

[Richard]

blah blah blah

Nice contribution to the discussion.

Hey, there is certainly precedence for this. One corps that I was associated with (I will not name names) faced this exact scenario. They ran out of money while in Allentown for DCI East. The entire corps ate nothing but cereal and peanut butter, before they performed the show, and left for home.

So the bottom line is this: don't march drum corps, if you are allergic to peanuts or Captain Crunch!

Seriously - I am sure that most members of this forum have similar horror stories. Really, it is almost part-and-parcel of this activity. Everyone, at some point in time, was associated with a corps that had financial or organizational troubles.

What happens with these corps? Members suffer through an abbreviated or miserable tour, or there is no tour, and the fees are not refunded. Staff have their paychecks bounce, or they don't get them at all. Bus companies and grocery stores have their checks bounce. Embarrassing articles are run the the local paper.

We've seen it all before. We don't need to name names.

Let's at least credit the OC and Revo management, for not creating that type of debacle. They took a potentially bad situation, and made the very best of it. Maybe there was some flooding down in the river valley - but at least the dam didn't burst.

Even so, this is the second year in a row that Oregon Crusaders have used this very ploy to get down the road. A last second fundraiser is a poor way to do things.

You know what, I'm just going to quote myself from the Revolution thread because it's worth repeating here:

...I think it's our responsibility as part of the drum corps community to question groups when information like this comes to light. That's not to say that people should go on here and post hearsay as fact, but asking questions is totally legitimate. A well-run corps should have reasonable explanations for the types of questions these situations raise.

Also, in past experiences when people come on these boards and say "Don't spread rumors, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what happens!", the 'rumors' turn out to be accurate and the corps folds/goes inactive shortly thereafter. I'm saying that I don't think Open Class corps deserve the benefit of the doubt any more. Let's ask the questions and wait for them to provide the answers. They don't have to provide those answers to us by any means, but, as I've said, if they have good explanations then providing them to the public shouldn't be a big issue. Too many people on here are too optimistic and take the silence of a troubled corps as a sign that all is well, when really that silence means impending doom...

Now I haven't seen anyone present any reason why we should give the benefit of the doubt to these struggling corps except "Don't be mean!", "X is a great drum corps!!!" and "Let's see you do it!!"; not exactly compelling arguments.

Here's some questions I'd like answered:

-Why did Oregon Crusaders fall so short of their fundraising goals two years in a row?

-What was done to try to avoid the situation they were in last year (needing money to finish tour) and why did it not work?

-What cutbacks did the program make this past year to ensure it's long-term stability?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening for a third year in a row?

-Why did Revolution plan one of the more ambition tours in Open Class without the funding to complete it?

-Why did Revolution let members leave for tour without having paid tuition?

-Why did it take Revo until June/July to realize they did not have enough money to complete their tour?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening next year?

Now if anyone comes on here and tells me to shut up and give money, or that it's not my business, or that I don't know these organizations well enough to comment, or that I should try and run a nonprofit organization and see how I do, then you're being IGNORANT.

To those of you that donated money: How can you give your money to these organizations without having the above questions answered? Giving in blind faith seems like a bad idea, especially to an organization like OC that has pulled this crap two years in a row. Hope you keep some money saved up to donate next year...

Lastly, if we, the supporters of drum corps, don't hold these organizations accountable for their poor budgeting, then they will have no reason to change their ways!!! It baffles me how many of you fail to see this!!!!!!!

[kusankusho]

But I digress, inevitably awaiting the return of the "you clearly don't have any idea how drum corps are actually run" comments.

I always thought it was a good idea to have a business manager who had little exposure to drum corps and would do things that made business sense, not do things because "that's the way we do it in drum corps"....

[ilovedc2]

Even so, this is the second year in a row that Oregon Crusaders have used this very ploy to get down the road. A last second fundraiser is a poor way to do things.

You know what, I'm just going to quote myself from the Revolution thread because it's worth repeating here:

Now I haven't seen anyone present any reason why we should give the benefit of the doubt to these struggling corps except "Don't be mean!", "X is a great drum corps!!!" and "Let's see you do it!!"; not exactly compelling arguments.

Here's some questions I'd like answered:

-Why did Oregon Crusaders fall so short of their fundraising goals two years in a row?

-What was done to try to avoid the situation they were in last year (needing money to finish tour) and why did it not work?

-What cutbacks did the program make this past year to ensure it's long-term stability?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening for a third year in a row?

-Why did Revolution plan one of the more ambition tours in Open Class without the funding to complete it?

-Why did Revolution let members leave for tour without having paid tuition?

-Why did it take Revo until June/July to realize they did not have enough money to complete their tour?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening next year?

Now if anyone comes on here and tells me to shut up and give money, or that it's not my business, or that I don't know these organizations well enough to comment, or that I should try and run a nonprofit organization and see how I do, then you're being IGNORANT.

To those of you that donated money: How can you give your money to these organizations without having the above questions answered? Giving in blind faith seems like a bad idea, especially to an organization like OC that has pulled this crap two years in a row. Hope you keep some money saved up to donate next year...

Lastly, if we, the supporters of drum corps, don't hold these organizations accountable for their poor budgeting, then they will have no reason to change their ways!!! It baffles me how many of you fail to see this!!!!!!!

Answer these questions or what will you do about it? Not help them as a volunteer, not donate your ice cream money, not drive their bus, not cook their food, not help them fund raise not what? These are all things you dont do anyway...I bet they feel really threatened by your demands. I am ignorant because I think that before you criticize or rant against them you should walk a mile in their shoes

Edited July 22, 2009 by ilovedc2

[relmquist]

Nice contribution to the discussion.

Even so, this is the second year in a row that Oregon Crusaders have used this very ploy to get down the road. A last second fundraiser is a poor way to do things.

You know what, I'm just going to quote myself from the Revolution thread because it's worth repeating here:

Now I haven't seen anyone present any reason why we should give the benefit of the doubt to these struggling corps except "Don't be mean!", "X is a great drum corps!!!" and "Let's see you do it!!"; not exactly compelling arguments.

Here's some questions I'd like answered:

-Why did Oregon Crusaders fall so short of their fundraising goals two years in a row?

-What was done to try to avoid the situation they were in last year (needing money to finish tour) and why did it not work?

-What cutbacks did the program make this past year to ensure it's long-term stability?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening for a third year in a row?

-Why did Revolution plan one of the more ambition tours in Open Class without the funding to complete it?

-Why did Revolution let members leave for tour without having paid tuition?

-Why did it take Revo until June/July to realize they did not have enough money to complete their tour?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening next year?

Now if anyone comes on here and tells me to shut up and give money, or that it's not my business, or that I don't know these organizations well enough to comment, or that I should try and run a nonprofit organization and see how I do, then you're being IGNORANT.

To those of you that donated money: How can you give your money to these organizations without having the above questions answered? Giving in blind faith seems like a bad idea, especially to an organization like OC that has pulled this crap two years in a row. Hope you keep some money saved up to donate next year...

Lastly, if we, the supporters of drum corps, don't hold these organizations accountable for their poor budgeting, then they will have no reason to change their ways!!! It baffles me how many of you fail to see this!!!!!!!

You are 100% correct!! If anything, you are showing more concern and love for drum corps by asking these questions then the posters that are castigating you. You would definately be a big help to these units. The question is would they ask for it?

[Richard]

Answer these questions or what will you do about it? Not help them as a volunteer, not donate your ice cream money, not drive their bus, not cook their food, not help them fund raise not what? These are all things you dont do anyway...I bet they feel really threatened by your demands.

All true statements. I'm encouraging others to ask these questions before they choose to commit their resources, be it time or money, to these organizations. I'd rather give my time and money to organizations that show some modicum of financial responsibility!

I am ignorant because I think that before you criticize or rant against them you should walk a mile in their shoes

Yes, yes you are. "Let's see you do it" does nothing to dissuade me from being inquisitive as to why these corps are in these situations! You obviously have some association with one of these corps, OC most likely, yet you present no legitimate reason that these corps deserve my or others' support aside from "running a drum corps is hard". At least some of the others who disagree with me in this thread make some kind of point backed up by logic or evidence. You, on the other hand, appear to be blindly defending your organization, which is hardly an endorsement for the support of that corps. "Don't think, just give!" Have fun with that.

[ilovedc2]

All true statements. I'm encouraging others to ask these questions before they choose to commit their resources, be it time or money, to these organizations. I'd rather give my time and money to organizations that show some modicum of financial responsibility!

Yes, yes you are. "Let's see you do it" does nothing to dissuade me from being inquisitive as to why these corps are in these situations! You obviously have some association with one of these corps, OC most likely, yet you present no legitimate reason that these corps deserve my or others' support aside from "running a drum corps is hard". At least some of the others who disagree with me in this thread make some kind of point backed up by logic or evidence. You, on the other hand, appear to be blindly defending your organization, which is hardly an endorsement for the support of that corps. "Don't think, just give!" Have fun with that.

This is fun! Here is a good idea.....dont give then....I am sure your milk money wouldnt get a corps out of the parking lot! I am not blindly defending my organization because none of the corps that are in financial straits this year are my corps. Its just people like you that have never been on staff or probably never even ran a cub scout troop running off at the mouth before you actually experience the stress and problems of running a nonprofit youth organization. You give me a good giggle!

[Richard]

This is fun! Here is a good idea.....dont give then....I am sure your milk money wouldnt get a corps out of the parking lot! I am not blindly defending my organization because none of the corps that are in financial straits this year are my corps. Its just people like you that have never been on staff or probably never even ran a cub scout troop running off at the mouth before you actually experience the stress and problems of running a nonprofit youth organization. You give me a good giggle!

That's fine, continue to attack my character instead of facing my argument. Are any of the questions I asked unfair or unreasonable? Please enlighten me.

[oldschooldbc]

-Why did Revolution plan one of the more ambition tours in Open Class without the funding to complete it?

-Why did Revolution let members leave for tour without having paid tuition?

-Why did it take Revo until June/July to realize they did not have enough money to complete their tour?

-What changes are in the works to prevent this from happening next year?

Again, I am not a member of Revo staff or management - only a parent. My opinions are my own. But I will function as the apologist for this organization, if necessary. I will try my best, to answer these points, one by one.

1) Obviously, the tour was planned well before all the funding was received. They committed to the tour in the spring, which was well before member fees were finally due. If the management had known they would have faced this type of revenue shortfalls, they may have planned a less ambitious tour. They made the best decision they could, given the information they had at the time.

2) Many members promised to pay, but were not able to do so, due to economic hardship. (Again, many Revo members come from less-than-priviledged backgrounds, in South and Central Texas.) Others eventually did pay, but much later in the tour. If the management had not permitted any of these members on the bus, then it would have adversely affected the product that you see out on the field. It would have also effected their competitiveness as well.

3) Again, many members promised to pay after the start of the tour in June, and collections ran behind. It was only after that point that the corps began public appeals for financial assistance. And again, the corps continues to collect funds from members who are still in arrears.

4) What changes are in the works? I do not know. The focus of the organization is on completing the current tour. Then the organization can focus on next year. Obviously, the corps will be looking to new revenue streams to fund its operations. So if any members of this forum have positive, constructive suggestions to make, please provide them.

I have the answers to the questions, and I am satisfied with the answers. If you are not satisfied with the answers, well, I'm sorry.

[rosski47]

Some of us money savvy CPA's can only donate to one corps a year, as we have the sense to plan for things such as loans, living expenses, and costs associated with everyday life.

So because someone doesn't know the exact way a drum corps is run, nothing else can contribute to his knowledge of good business sense? Foresight is key when you're running a business, and running a drum corps is very much like running a business. It is your responsibility to make sure your entity is kept afloat, even moreso than a typical business because now you have to worry about the well-being of the members. Budgeting shouldn't be ENTIRELY reliant on what you're hoping to incur, and that's just what this situation was. It's not unreasonable to include potential income in your forecasting model, but it IS unreasonable to expect that you will always meet these goals and not have a contingency plan, especially on something as flaky as a fundraiser. It was based on hope that they would have successful fundraisers to carry them through tour. In my opinion, any fundraiser that happens during the season (meaning, after camps are through) to supplement the current season in such a vital way isn't a great idea. But I digress, inevitably awaiting the return of the "you clearly don't have any idea how drum corps are actually run" comments.

What would happen if they made it halfway to Indianapolis only to realize that there was NO way to feed the corps unless people donated money on short notice? What would happen if NOBODY donated the money? Would these members all be stranded with nowhere to stay and nothing to eat? While people are quick to jump on the "you should help out and contribute so things like this don't happen" bandwagon, discussing this topic is not necessarily malicious in intent. This is a serious issue, not just for the OC, but for any corps that encounters this. All I care about is that the OC is on the road and hopefully making a finals appearance, but for people to automatically try to hush others who have a not so positive opinion on the matter is unreasonable. It's not all roses and dandelions when it comes to drum corps budgeting issues, but does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to discuss it?

Thank you, this is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.