Open Class Audience Estimates?

[oldschooldbc]

Could the OC corps evenutally just break away from DCI all together?

Might not be a bad idea.

At one time, there was a DCM, Drum Corps East, Drum Corps South, etc. Many corps marched primarily these circuits, because you were paid better, if you were not a DCI Member corps.

Ultimately, at some point, the economics could flip. An alternate tour, or set of tours, might be best for OC outfits, in the long run. At least you could get paid for your own performances. You could start your own Fan Network. You could start your own merchandising efforts.

You wouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to travel thousands of miles to give performances for which you are not compensated, aren't appreciated - really aren't welcome.

You could do lots of things, once you are freed of the yolk of the WC corps, and the BOD. If you don't like the rule changes from the past 15-20 years, reverse them, and go back to traditional drum corps. Get rid electronics, woodwinds, and everything else. You wouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on instruments and equipment that you really don't need.

Here's and idea: Send the BOD a copy of Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye by Steam. Have it autograhed by the members of the OC corps, and Fedex it to them for the winter meetings. That would be hilarious! What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall, when that happens!

In fact, if the BOD continue to put the squeeze on the OC corps, this may be more than a good idea - it may be the only path to financial survival.

Edited August 21, 2009 by oldschooldbc

[tommyfromhowardst]

Could the OC corps evenutally just break away from DCI all together?

Might not be a bad idea.

At one time, there was a DCM, Drum Corps East, Drum Corps South, etc. Many corps marched primarily these circuits, because you were paid better, if you were not a DCI Member corps.

Ultimately, at some point, the economics could flip. An alternate tour, or set of tours, might be best for OC outfits, in the long run. At least you could get paid for your own performances. You could start your own Fan Network. You could start your own merchandising efforts.

You wouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to travel thousands of miles to give performances for which you are not compensated, aren't appreciated - really aren't welcome.

You could do lots of things, once you are freed of the yolk of the WC corps, and the BOD. If you don't like the rule changes from the past 15-20 years, reverse them, and go back to traditional drum corps. Get rid electronics, woodwinds, and everything else. You wouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on instruments and equipment that you really don't need.

Here's and idea: Send the BOD a copy of Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye by Steam. Have it autograhed by the members of the OC corps, and Fedex it to them for the winter meetings. That would be hilarious! What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall, when that happens!

In fact, if the BOD continue to put the squeeze on the OC corps, this may be more than a good idea - it may be the only path to financial survival.

I have been thinking this for about two years now. Sometimes you have to tear it down to build it up again. DCI can go to Broadway and drum corps can get their members from the street once again. As I recall, the activity is still Drum & Bugle Corps, not DCI. Drum Corps does not need DCI to survive.

[tommyfromhowardst]

Wrong

Unless they want to have 4 shows in cow pastures and play in front of crowds that include barnyard animals. Or go DCA - same thing.

Well J, looks like ya' got it all figured out!! Guess we'll get our cues from you. What would be your idea? Please don't just wander into a discussion and say "wrong" and something about your interest in barnyard animals. We all would like to hear your plan. Please.

Edited August 21, 2009 by tommyfromhowardst

[Tom Brace]

right. so they'll take the money OC corps generate, but ##### about having to spend any on them.

thats genius

here's the rub. Since before OC was created, the model did not make money. I would love a II/III - OC director come on and tell us the last time they received their share payment in September.

[Tom Brace]

ok. get a tour where people can see them, not where they have more corn stalks than people. then...give em a shot. it worked in 2002. funny....that was never repeated because if it hadnt been for the local host, it wouldnt have worked then....no one paid attention

not enough midwestern OC corps to draw fan interest anymore. Even Mich. City's attendance was way down (from what I have heard from people there) from last year. Some of that could be expected...economy, novelty has worn off, some people, no doubt heard "drum corps" and thought Cavies and Regiment and maybe Madison last year and didn't see those corps so they were more informed consumers the second time around.

Even in 2002, there were many more Midwestern II/III corps.

How many today that could draw a decent audience. And I say this after being in a half filled stadium and seeing Racine Scouts perform and literally seeing the stadium fill to overflowing for Colt Cadets on up. So, what gives?

[oldschooldbc]

here's the rub. Since before OC was created, the model did not make money. I would love a II/III - OC director come on and tell us the last time they received their share payment in September.

Think of it this way, in pure mathematical terms. View it from the perspective of the WC members - specifically, the BOD.

The revenue from a WC show is X. If they give any money from that show to OC corps, then the money that is left is Y. The difference between the two numbers is Z. Y is what the WC directors would get to keep.

Z is money that the WC directors can't use to fund their own programs; effectively, they are "taking food off of their own tables". These WC directors are motivated exclusively out of their own self interest. They are certainly not motivated out of charity. They are not in the business of doing what is in the best interest of drum corps - they do what is in the best interest of their own drum corps. (And, I might add, they do what is in the best interest of their own careers.)

So there is no motivation for those guys to hand over a single dime of Z. It simply won't happen.

More to the point, Z would be a disaster for the WC corps, from a long-term strategic perspective. Some of the OC corps will try to move up to WC someday. What if they compete effectively against the WC corps? What if they take a finals spot someday? Do you think that the BOD directors want to fund their future competition? Of course not. They would prefer to see the OC corps penniless, ineffective, and out of the way.

Think of it this way: how many WC directors today wish that Carolina Crown would have folded back in 1992, when they were still back in D2? They probably all wish that today - since Crown finished ahead of all of them, save BD. Even BD realizes they will have another tough competitor in the future - they too probably wish CC had gone extinct.

No, if the OC directors really want to get a fair revenue stake, they will need to start performing more of their own shows - either inside or outside DCI.

[ItsOnTheField]

Well, I have an idea. Host an OC tour in the southeast and southwest. Hold it in the early half of the season, before the San Antonio show/Atlanta shows. Host it in places where Drum Corps South events were once held, or other similar locations. Let the OC corps who march there keep 100% of the proceeds. That way, OC corps don't have to slum their way through WC shows, from which they are paid zero dollars, and get virtually no merchandising sales.

Hold these events in states such as Texas, Florida, and other Sunbelt states which are actually growing - not Rustbelt states, where the economy is shrinking. Why does DCI hold mutiple OC events in Rustbelt states such as Wisconsin and Michigan, but none in Florida or Texas, which are larger and growing fast?

You can still have a tour in the Midwest for the OC corps, leading up to Finals in Indy. This is still vitally important, to judge your competitive positioning, going into finals week.

But come on? Why do we have OC shows in metropolises such as Paw Paw, MI and Greendale, WI - instead of Houston, Dallas, Nashville, Atlanta, Orlando or Miami? No wonder so many OC corps are financially strapped.

OC shows in Michigan had great turn out and turned a profit.

[Tom Brace]

Might I remind you that many of the individuals that make up the "FEATURED" corps came from those small corps that cannot draw an audience. The reason many of the shows do not profit (and actually many of them do profit, I think all of them did profit this year) is because the lack of promotion and marketing that is done for the shows. If DCI continues to not place an invested hand in the corps, then we will loos 22 corps all together and there will only be about 23 in existance. WIthout any prior training many people will never be able to march if there are only 23 corps in existance.

The current model is set up to where OC doesn't have the ability to make any sort of money and they are forced to travel extremely far to do shows. Why can DCI not use the model of DCM and do a more regional show with one or two MAJOR headliners and several small corps? Also how can the top 6 corps participate in profit sharing from DCI when there isn't any profit being made? It is true that OC is only making money because of the free stadiumn deal, but so what and who cares the end result is they are making money, and DCI ceritnaly used that proft to cover costs of the MAJOR short fall in WC.....

I am sure that you will see about 3=5 new open calss shows on the schedule next year in the Midwest.... Could the OC corps evenutally just break away from DCI all together? It would be cheaper, but then who would DCI use to fill open slots, its not so fun when DCI only has 4 WC corps in an area to do a show and they need to send 4 OC corps in to give the show promoter enough groups to actually hold a show. Oh wait thats right, OC corps are just pawns that are used in whatever way they are needed.

Now you can ALL argue till you are blue on here about this subject, and quite frankly most people will not even read much past this, as I won't....But Open class corps are made of the same thing World Class corps are.... young men and women ages 14-21 (with a few bonus people) therefore they are all EQUAL and should be treated as such.

No lack of passion here. I am confused by the logic though.

1. WC corps get more members directly from high school marching and college marching programs. These kids have zero experience in Open Class. The paradigm has changed since the days of Cadet corps. Those organizations with Cadet corps (Colts, SCV, BD) are the exception to the rule.

2. The question about profit is a good one and can be framed this way...what could DCI be doing with the money spent on OC if, OC doesn't fulfill it's potential? Perhaps some of the high ticket prices fans pay now could be reduced if the resources were allocated differently.

3. Yes, on the surface these corps all have buses too. But, that has never made them equal. There is obviously a "snob" appeal to most fans, because the butts in seats prove that out and have since there was a DCI. Shows with the Blue Devils in the midwest sell better than if that corps did not come east early in the season. Regiment sells more tickets out west than a trip by a lower placing corps would. OC corps have zero snob appeal and it really is up to OC to prove they can manage to draw crowds.

I equate it to a guy I work with who wants a promotion because he thinks he'll be better at the higher paying job than he is at his current job. He marginally does his job now and as soon as he accumulates a day of PTO, he has a reason to use it. He's a clock watcher and finds time to maximize every break so he is barely skating by. And HE WANTS A PROMOTION. It defies logic.

[kansasDC]

Think of it this way, in pure mathematical terms. View it from the perspective of the WC members - specifically, the BOD.

The revenue from a WC show is X. If they give any money from that show to OC corps, then the money that is left is Y. The difference between the two numbers is Z. Y is what the WC directors would get to keep.

Z is money that the WC directors can't use to fund their own programs; effectively, they are "taking food off of their own tables". These WC directors are motivated exclusively out of their own self interest. They are certainly not motivated out of charity. They are not in the business of doing what is in the best interest of drum corps - they do what is in the best interest of their own drum corps. (And, I might add, they do what is in the best interest of their own careers.)

So there is no motivation for those guys to hand over a single dime of Z. It simply won't happen.

Here is the problem with your argument: In the shows that normally also have OC corps (not DCI Regionals), DCI is not the "owner" of these shows and does not get any additional revenue, unless the attendance exceeds 5,000. The profits all go to the show sponsor, usually a local HS band, fraternal organization, community, or, in some cases, an individual or group of individuals doing it for their own profit. The WC corps get paid their regular show fee no matter what the result of the gate is at the show. So, how does this show the WC corps are "using" the OC corps? I think you need to get a lot more involved or knowledgeable in the actual running of a DCI show before you make statements such as the above. Your statements are not based on any current facts. I also think you need to communicate with the OC corps Directors about why things are the way they are when it comes to finals, etc. After all, they were the ones who voted on it being that way.

Edited August 21, 2009 by kansasDC

[ChwyNiblet]

The OC corps have no power or control in DCI. None of the OC directors sit on the BOD. They have no say whatsoever, in any substantial matters. They certainly have no control over the marketing and promotional decisions. And apparently, the status quo suits the the BOD just fine.

I guess the OC folks will have to do this themselves, since DCI won't help them. Essentially, they have to do DCI's job for them. Maybe BDB, SCVC, Citations, et al, need to start doing promotional events in Indianapolis, or create their own marketing and promotional work for OC finals.

You do realize that before Surf moved up to world class Bob Jacobs was DCI's marketing director?