The index of leading drum corps indicators

[corpsreps]

This came directly from the corpsreps database. If you have information on shows that are not in corpsreps, then feel free to send it to them. I am sure they would like to add it to their database.

Yes, as I already stated, the database is incomplete for 1972. I certainly would welcome information about shows we do not have listed.

[oldschooldbc]

Don't forget that most staff have "real" jobs as well, and therefore are unable to do a 65 day tour. As a result, staff are constantly cycling in and out of tour, so the actual number of staff in front of the kids on any given day on tour is probably more like 20-25. A full roster of 50 staff (or more) is probably necessary to be able to cover the tour at all times.

Still, the number of instructors has risen tremendously in recent decades. When I marched in 1983, we didn't have 25 instructors - far from it. I believe we had a maximum of 7 instructors - a couple of brass instructors, one percussion instructor, a couple of color guard folks, and I think 1-2 visual instructors. And we were a semifinalist in Open Clas at the time - effectively the equivalent to what Colts are in WC today.

I don't know why you need to have so many instructors. Seriously, do you need one brass tech to work with 1st sopranos, and another to work with the second sopranos?

If this number of instructors are needed, then fine. Keep them. If they are not needed, then don't pay for them - and tack an extra $500 on everyone's tour fee, to pay for it. This just jacks up the total cost of the tour, and the total cost per student - thus squeezing more corps, and more students, out of the activity.

[Northern Thunder]

Well, I will give you my calculations for another stat:

•The number of drum corps shows in a given year

I will use our good friends at corpsreps for this calculation - and give them full credit.

They list 118 shows for 1972, at all levels, junior and senior. Again, I am trying to use the start of the DCI era, for consistency sake. I will include other timeframes, if necessary.

These figures will give you a more accurate scene for 1972:

My archives contains scores for 333 separate JUNIOR contests alone for 1972. Even at that number, there are MANY more contests that have yet to be documented.

[truenorthdc]

I see further down the forum list there are Open Class corps already posting their "AUDITION" times. If drum corps is to grow, new corps have got to be started across the continent with 12 to 14 yr. olds being taught what drum corps is and how to play march etc. etc. etc. This is supposed to be a youth activity to give "kids" 12 to 21 that is. something to do in their spare time. The NE US is starting a new assn. for new corps that will be taking kids off the streets and starting from scratch with them. Quebec started tha same thing 2 yrs. ago and have 7 new corps as I hear. I/we are in the process of setting a new corps up in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario, to replace the disbanded Bandettes. I see here in the forum today today a new rookie corps is starting in Penn. This is exciting for true drum corps fans. I was told to start a new corps I would first need a good sponsor with lots of money to throw in and be from an area where there are enough marching bands and music programs to provide the pool to draw from to fill my corps. Everyone assumes we want to do a DCI tour right away and do our best to make finals. I just want 40 or so kids to belong to something they feel very good about and make sure they have a great summer "trip" 7 to 10 days our first summer doing parades would be fantastic. This age group is terrific for several reasons. First and best of all you get to see drum corps over again and again through the eyes of total rookies to the activity. We need "a new assn" or division of DCI, call it the "Minor League of Marching Music" or Division II/III. Corps that are 3 or 4 years away from doing a DCI tour. Create their own shows where they won't be getting the butts kicked majorly evey night. When the members get to 17 or more and want to "audition" for another corps, so be it. We still need to be bringing in the 12 yr olds and up to keep the activity alive and growing. Top DCI corps drew from corps for years until they nearly all folded and now have to rely on marching bands and university/college music students to fill their ranks. DCI has done an amazing job developing and creating the activity as they wanted the direction of the activity to go. Don't expect them to throw thousands into developing new "rookie" corps, they can't afford to do many of they things they need to be doing for themselves let alone hold our hands and lead us along. It seems many people have finally taken the bull by the horns and are starting their own "New Rookie Corps" and this is what will rebuild the activity. Please don't compare the "Open Class DCI Corps" to new rookie corps. We don't need 200 or 300 thousand dollars to run our corps. We just need caring dedicated people who want to help kids and most of all share this great activity we call drum corps. We don't need 68 paid staff, a handfull of volunteers and a few paid caption heads is plenty. I feel pretty good about the future of the drum corps activity as I know and enjoyed it and I am excited to see so many "rookie" corps being started. You know, if each of the 48 mainland states and each Canadian Province started 7 corps Like Quebec did, that would be over 400 new corps during the next several years. I could happen, Northeast US hoping for 6 to 8 or more by next summer, Quebec already has 7 as of now, Lehigh Vally and Sault Ste Marie starting up this fall....That's 16 or more new "rookie" corps in that last 2 years starting up....and nobody knows about them. We've got to get the names and information about this growth out there to more people so they can all come together and co-ordinate this new "assn or div." Well, I sat down to do some work on the new corps, legal stuff etc. but I'll be watching with great interest as news of these new "rookie" corps keeps springing up. Chow!

[oldschooldbc]

These figures will give you a more accurate scene for 1972:

My archives contains scores for 333 separate JUNIOR contests alone for 1972. Even at that number, there are MANY more contests that have yet to be documented.

I humbly stand corrected. If this is true, then maybe criteria three, from my ILDCI index, is not favorable, either. (If that is the case, none of the criteria in my index are favorable. ) I actually calculate 109 shows from DCI last year. That's a 67% drop, from 1972. This roughly mirrors the drop in the number of junior corps over this period of time - so the statistic makes sense, from that perspective.

Now, is my calculation of 109 junior shows for 2008 accurate? And are there any competitive junior shows left - any at all - other than DCI? I don't see any of those in corpsreps. All I see on corpsreps from last year, are DCI, DCA, MCA, and a couple of exhibitions. No DCM, DCE, DCS, GSC, VFW, CYO, AL, NASA, or any other acronym.

So is anything missing from the current epoch? Is there some "Magical Mystery Tour" out there, with hundreds of shows, which nobody talks about?

[Northern Thunder]

Fromthepressbox.com and Corpsreps.com would have VERY reliable stats for any of the last 10-15 years. All of the junior corps contests that were held from the early 1990s were well-documented. Drum Corps World has published ALL contest results since the late 1980s. So those statistics you have from recent years would be accurate.

As for 1972, I know that even with the 333 junior contests I've found scores for, the activity was so huge that a complete collection of scores will never be possible. I couldn't even tell you what percentage of contests the 333 would be. I would like to think that it is at least 75% complete, but nobody will ever know.

[oldschooldbc]

Fromthepressbox.com and Corpsreps.com would have VERY reliable stats for any of the last 10-15 years. All of the junior corps contests that were held from the early 1990s were well-documented. Drum Corps World has published ALL contest results since the late 1980s. So those statistics you have from recent years would be accurate.

As for 1972, I know that even with the 333 junior contests I've found scores for, the activity was so huge that a complete collection of scores will never be possible. I couldn't even tell you what percentage of contests the 333 would be. I would like to think that it is at least 75% complete, but nobody will ever know.

I will take the number from 1989, using the fromthepressbox.com numbers; this will give us a comparison period of 20 years. They show 195 junior contests that year. This includes DCI, DCM, DCE, and DCW shows.

The fromthepressbox numbers for last year show 111 shows, presumably all DCI. (Interestingly enough, the number of DCI shows actually went up during this period of time. Presumably, after DCM/DCE/DCW/DCS folded, their shows were rolled into DCI, or replaced with other DCI shows. But it was not at a rate to make up for the loss of the shows from the other tours.)

That's a drop of 43% drop over a 20-year period. That's not good. So even using these numbers, from a shorter period of time, provide some disturbing results.

[tommyfromhowardst]

I see further down the forum list there are Open Class corps already posting their "AUDITION" times. If drum corps is to grow, new corps have got to be started across the continent with 12 to 14 yr. olds being taught what drum corps is and how to play march etc. etc. etc. This is supposed to be a youth activity to give "kids" 12 to 21 that is. something to do in their spare time. The NE US is starting a new assn. for new corps that will be taking kids off the streets and starting from scratch with them. Quebec started tha same thing 2 yrs. ago and have 7 new corps as I hear. I/we are in the process of setting a new corps up in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario, to replace the disbanded Bandettes. I see here in the forum today today a new rookie corps is starting in Penn. This is exciting for true drum corps fans. I was told to start a new corps I would first need a good sponsor with lots of money to throw in and be from an area where there are enough marching bands and music programs to provide the pool to draw from to fill my corps. Everyone assumes we want to do a DCI tour right away and do our best to make finals. I just want 40 or so kids to belong to something they feel very good about and make sure they have a great summer "trip" 7 to 10 days our first summer doing parades would be fantastic. This age group is terrific for several reasons. First and best of all you get to see drum corps over again and again through the eyes of total rookies to the activity. We need "a new assn" or division of DCI, call it the "Minor League of Marching Music" or Division II/III. Corps that are 3 or 4 years away from doing a DCI tour. Create their own shows where they won't be getting the butts kicked majorly evey night. When the members get to 17 or more and want to "audition" for another corps, so be it. We still need to be bringing in the 12 yr olds and up to keep the activity alive and growing. Top DCI corps drew from corps for years until they nearly all folded and now have to rely on marching bands and university/college music students to fill their ranks. DCI has done an amazing job developing and creating the activity as they wanted the direction of the activity to go. Don't expect them to throw thousands into developing new "rookie" corps, they can't afford to do many of they things they need to be doing for themselves let alone hold our hands and lead us along. It seems many people have finally taken the bull by the horns and are starting their own "New Rookie Corps" and this is what will rebuild the activity. Please don't compare the "Open Class DCI Corps" to new rookie corps. We don't need 200 or 300 thousand dollars to run our corps. We just need caring dedicated people who want to help kids and most of all share this great activity we call drum corps. We don't need 68 paid staff, a handfull of volunteers and a few paid caption heads is plenty. I feel pretty good about the future of the drum corps activity as I know and enjoyed it and I am excited to see so many "rookie" corps being started. You know, if each of the 48 mainland states and each Canadian Province started 7 corps Like Quebec did, that would be over 400 new corps during the next several years. I could happen, Northeast US hoping for 6 to 8 or more by next summer, Quebec already has 7 as of now, Lehigh Vally and Sault Ste Marie starting up this fall....That's 16 or more new "rookie" corps in that last 2 years starting up....and nobody knows about them. We've got to get the names and information about this growth out there to more people so they can all come together and co-ordinate this new "assn or div." Well, I sat down to do some work on the new corps, legal stuff etc. but I'll be watching with great interest as news of these new "rookie" corps keeps springing up. Chow!

I have been waiting for this post for 10 years. I will PM you Bandettedriver.

[bobjacobs]

I may be the only one who thinks this way. But I want the Open Class Div. to be successful and grow. Yet I feel that some OC Corps Dir. could care less if the Open Class Div. is successful and grows. Their only concern is if their Corps passes the WC evaluation. After that happens they could care less if the OC Div. folds or not. This is the perception that I have gleaned from watching the Corps move from OC to WC over the years. And because of this I feel that there is no direction and vision in the OC Div. Sometimes perception becomes reality.

Creative thinking is one thing actions is another. Here is just one idea that will costs the Corps no money and yet have great pr value. Why not contact the Food Network and ask them to do a story on our rolling kitchens and how well the kids are fed. The worst that could happen is they say no.

Dean

Dean, I would like to respond to you publicly as both a part of the marketing effort at DCI and as a long-time Open Class corps director of a unit that recently made a transition from the Open Class to the World Class.

I, too, want the Open Class Division to be successful and to grow. I don't know ANY OC Corps Directors who "could care less" about the Open Class Div. I know MANY OC Corps Directors who have their hands full, volunteering (in nearly every case) to keep their corps alive, to keep recruiting members, to keep developing staff and to continue to raise the funds necessary to pay the bills for insurance, fuel, food, uniforms, equipment and all else. I don't know any corps directors still active in the game today whose only concern is passing the WC evaluation... and I've been around the Open Class Division for many years. I think there is a direction and a vision in the Open Class Division and that under the stewardship of coordinator Dave Eddleman and the passionate corps directors who help to steer the ship, the Open Class will continue to improve the opportunities for the corps operating in this division.

I would like to also respond to your suggestion about the Food Network: We have been working through various means to collaborate with the Food Network for several seasons on several different projects. One of the roadblocks to our ability to forge ahead with something very cool is the fact that very few of the corps rolling kitchens would actually look good on television and pass muster on a number of required fronts. We'll keep working on this, however, and we'll be sure to save you an apron and a spatula once we hit pay dirt.

[bobjacobs]

That is certainly true for some OC directors, but not all.

Some OC directors would prefer to offer a low-cost experience for their students. That can only happen in OC. It cannot happen in WC.

In WC, there are minimum tour fees that must be charged for each performer. This rule ensures that WC corps charge enough funds for the units to complete the tour. But these rates are actually higher than what some OC directors want to charge their kids - or can charge them.

This is patently false.