The index of leading drum corps indicators

[Hup234]

"Comparing drom corps in 1972 to drum corps of the present is like comparing apples and oranges."

May I offer another simile?

In 1972, drum corps was John Wayne, Richard Burton, Brian Keith and Wonder Woman.

In 2009, drum corps is Elton John, Richard Simmons, Keith Richards and Stevie Wonder.

[IntheMood]

Dean, I would like to respond to you publicly as both a part of the marketing effort at DCI and as a long-time Open Class corps director of a unit that recently made a transition from the Open Class to the World Class.

I, too, want the Open Class Division to be successful and to grow. I don't know ANY OC Corps Directors who "could care less" about the Open Class Div. I know MANY OC Corps Directors who have their hands full, volunteering (in nearly every case) to keep their corps alive, to keep recruiting members, to keep developing staff and to continue to raise the funds necessary to pay the bills for insurance, fuel, food, uniforms, equipment and all else. I don't know any corps directors still active in the game today whose only concern is passing the WC evaluation... and I've been around the Open Class Division for many years. I think there is a direction and a vision in the Open Class Division and that under the stewardship of coordinator Dave Eddleman and the passionate corps directors who help to steer the ship, the Open Class will continue to improve the opportunities for the corps operating in this division.

I would like to also respond to your suggestion about the Food Network: We have been working through various means to collaborate with the Food Network for several seasons on several different projects. One of the roadblocks to our ability to forge ahead with something very cool is the fact that very few of the corps rolling kitchens would actually look good on television and pass muster on a number of required fronts. We'll keep working on this, however, and we'll be sure to save you an apron and a spatula once we hit pay dirt.

Thank You for your response. I do volunteer my time and money to a certain Drum Corps. But without question I will be more than happen to donate my time and money to do what I can to help the Open Class Div. So please do save me an apron. I cook bad. But I can clean the dishes. LOL

Dean

[oldschooldbc]

as is just about everything else the original poster proclaims.

If everything else that the OP (me) claims is false, then please, debunk some of the other information I have given in this thread:

1) That the number of junior drum corps has shrunk dramatically, over the course DCI's history;

2) That the number of youth that participate in junior drum corps has also shrunk dramatically, over the course of DCI's history;

3) The number of junior drum corps shows has also shrunk dramatically as well, over the course of DCI's history;

4) There has been significant increases in operating costs at a number of junior corps, and as a result, many are operating in the red;

5) The spending on discretionary items - such as the amount of paid staff - has also risen dramatically in recent years.

Please, if you have facts or figures to counter some of these claims, please provide them. I have gleaned my information from public sources - including the DC World reports, and IRS Form 990 filings.

If you have information to the contrary, please share. I am all ears.

[Tom Brace]

If everything else that the OP (me) claims is false, then please, debunk some of the other information I have given in this thread:

1) That the number of junior drum corps has shrunk dramatically, over the course DCI's history;

2) That the number of youth that participate in junior drum corps has also shrunk dramatically, over the course of DCI's history;

3) The number of junior drum corps shows has also shrunk dramatically as well, over the course of DCI's history;

4) There has been significant increases in operating costs at a number of junior corps, and as a result, many are operating in the red;

5) The spending on discretionary items - such as the amount of paid staff - has also risen dramatically in recent years.

Please, if you have facts or figures to counter some of these claims, please provide them. I have gleaned my information from public sources - including the DC World reports, and IRS Form 990 filings.

If you have information to the contrary, please share. I am all ears.

I, for one will not argue with your findings. I believe you are earnestly trying to obtain the most accurate data. I applaud you for this effort.

Where we will most likely differ is on any causation effect tried to be gleened from this data. This is where some bias may enter the discussion. Causation will be difficult, if not impossible to prove. I look forward to this discussion as it emerges. And, I bet you can guess which side of the argument I will fall on. I will be waiting to read the evidence of Corps Directors and BoDs being forced to join DCI or forced to go on a national tour. I think evidence I might gather will soundly refute any such claims should they arise.

And, since I am crystal balling this...I think we will find along the way that in each and every decision, made by corps' management personnel (ED, CD, BoDs) there were options not chosen. Let me start with one in particular. DCM Div. 1 corps did not have to leave DCM for DCI-Central. They were not forced to leave DCM. They made a decision to leave. This decision had consequences. Like many others we shall explore, no doubt in the coming months. And to all, I bid ye welcome to this discussion. I promise to leave my broad brush at home if you do the same.

Deal?

[Canadacorps]

I see further down the forum list there are Open Class corps already posting their "AUDITION" times. If drum corps is to grow, new corps have got to be started across the continent with 12 to 14 yr. olds being taught what drum corps is and how to play march etc. etc. etc. This is supposed to be a youth activity to give "kids" 12 to 21 that is. something to do in their spare time. The NE US is starting a new assn. for new corps that will be taking kids off the streets and starting from scratch with them. Quebec started tha same thing 2 yrs. ago and have 7 new corps as I hear. I/we are in the process of setting a new corps up in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario, to replace the disbanded Bandettes. I see here in the forum today today a new rookie corps is starting in Penn. This is exciting for true drum corps fans. I was told to start a new corps I would first need a good sponsor with lots of money to throw in and be from an area where there are enough marching bands and music programs to provide the pool to draw from to fill my corps. Everyone assumes we want to do a DCI tour right away and do our best to make finals. I just want 40 or so kids to belong to something they feel very good about and make sure they have a great summer "trip" 7 to 10 days our first summer doing parades would be fantastic. This age group is terrific for several reasons. First and best of all you get to see drum corps over again and again through the eyes of total rookies to the activity. We need "a new assn" or division of DCI, call it the "Minor League of Marching Music" or Division II/III. Corps that are 3 or 4 years away from doing a DCI tour. Create their own shows where they won't be getting the butts kicked majorly evey night. When the members get to 17 or more and want to "audition" for another corps, so be it. We still need to be bringing in the 12 yr olds and up to keep the activity alive and growing. Top DCI corps drew from corps for years until they nearly all folded and now have to rely on marching bands and university/college music students to fill their ranks. DCI has done an amazing job developing and creating the activity as they wanted the direction of the activity to go. Don't expect them to throw thousands into developing new "rookie" corps, they can't afford to do many of they things they need to be doing for themselves let alone hold our hands and lead us along. It seems many people have finally taken the bull by the horns and are starting their own "New Rookie Corps" and this is what will rebuild the activity. Please don't compare the "Open Class DCI Corps" to new rookie corps. We don't need 200 or 300 thousand dollars to run our corps. We just need caring dedicated people who want to help kids and most of all share this great activity we call drum corps. We don't need 68 paid staff, a handfull of volunteers and a few paid caption heads is plenty. I feel pretty good about the future of the drum corps activity as I know and enjoyed it and I am excited to see so many "rookie" corps being started. You know, if each of the 48 mainland states and each Canadian Province started 7 corps Like Quebec did, that would be over 400 new corps during the next several years. I could happen, Northeast US hoping for 6 to 8 or more by next summer, Quebec already has 7 as of now, Lehigh Vally and Sault Ste Marie starting up this fall....That's 16 or more new "rookie" corps in that last 2 years starting up....and nobody knows about them. We've got to get the names and information about this growth out there to more people so they can all come together and co-ordinate this new "assn or div." Well, I sat down to do some work on the new corps, legal stuff etc. but I'll be watching with great interest as news of these new "rookie" corps keeps springing up. Chow!

I agree that more Corps are needed to keep this activity going. But, part of the problem with attrition in the ranks is that many good people go and attempt to build Corps without the support, volunteer base, or fundraising and business skills needed to make it viable and grow into something more. If we could inject some of the enthusiasm and dedication that these motivated individuals possess into existing programs, we could potentially see alot firmer foundations for many Corps.

Growth is good, but we cannot realistically expect HUGE growth without a massive shift in our culture back to the days of volunteerism and supporting one's community. Especially in Canada, you and I both know that we are not a heavy-volunteer culture, and many Canadians don't posess nearly the same type of patriotism, sense of community, or commitment to music education as our friends south of the border. I mean, look at last Septembers election, when even our Prime Minister had stated that the arts are "all about expensive galas" and "ordinary Canadians do not support them." Maybe this is why attrition has hit us so much harder here in Canada. (This Country is SORELY lacking for Drum Corps, The Strutters are now the ONLY Drum & Bugle Corps that serves youth in the ENTIRE Western half of Canada.)

However, not all is doom and gloom. Our activity can grow again. Especially up North here, we have to come together with a strategy that is going to result in new approaches in marketing our activity to the public. You are on the right track, we have to start again with younger kids, and grow from there. I don't know whether a new division is necessary... But maybe our existing division needs to be increasingly more oriented toward determining what our place within the activity is, defining it, and then improving the marketing of our brand.

We also need to continue working amongst ourselves to implement proper strategies that will lead to more exposure, and eventually growth and popularity. We can't wait for graces to shower down on us from the top of World Class, and DCI. It isn't going to happen. They have to focus on remaining viable themselves.

To summarize, I agree that the focus of Open Class should be on educating our members and giving them a fantastic experience, but growth will take a steady-handed approach with everyone working together.

*EDITED FOR CLARITY*

Edited August 25, 2009 by Canadacorps

[IntheMood]

I just read the audience thread for the first time today. What I am about to say could fit just as well in that thread but I will post here because this is where I started. DCI has never really cared about the Open/A class Corps. As a matter of fact I think DCI cares a little more now then back in the day. DCI did not even hold a Class A/Open Finals until 3 years after the first W/O Finals. So really nothing has changed that much in how DCI has treated the OC Div. Yes, it is very true I do not know the inter-workings of how the OC is ran. I do however want to learn. It is very disrespectful when I read someone saying "You have no idea how this or that works" when all someone has to do is take time to teach us so we can have a better conversation. It is clear to me that many of us who have posted on these two threads want the OC Div to survive in the long term. There have been many ideas that have been put on the table. To call one of these ideas crazy makes me wonder if that person has ever been in a brainstorming meeting. Because no idea is ever called crazy. At least that is how I teach brainstorming sessions.

I fully understand that most of the OC Corps Dir. are doing the right thing and their priority is not moving up to WC and their evaluation process. But it seems to me that all I hear about the OC div. is who is moving up next or which OC Corps is folding next. Yet little to nothing is said about all the little Corps forming. It is these little Corps that are forming that will save the OC Div. More focus must be put on those Corps instead of which OC Corps is moving up next. To me the Corps Dirs. who are using the OC Div. for the WC evaluation and nothing else have their priorities all wrong. All I can say to that is good riddance and do not let the door hit one in the a#@.

The reason I say that I see no direction and vision in the OC Div. is because right now all you are doing is following in the footsteps of the WC Corps. The OC have not set themselves apart from the WC Corps. Every rule change that is made in WC is copied by the OC Directors. You must STOP this practice. OC Corps are NOT WC Corps, so stop trying to be something you are not. Be proud of who you are. I am very proud to tell anyone who will listen that I marched in a Class A Corps. The only reason I follow the WC side for the most part is that is the Div the Glassmen are in at this point in time. My heart will always belong on the OC side. But as long as the Focus on the OC side is young adults (18-22) instead of the young kids off the street (like my brother and I were 12 and 13 when we started) I will remain on the sideline. All though I have started to support an OC Corps.

Has anyone asked if any of us would be willing to donate say, $50.00 apiece for prize money at an OC Show? Or buy a Trophy for an OC Show? Hell for that matter I could make a Trophy for free. I also know an Glassmen Alum who is very good at woodworking, who would jump at the chance to make a Trophy for an OC Show.

Some of the OC Corps are new and do not have a long history so their Alumni base may not be that active or strong. But the OC/A Div. has a very long history. Why not embrace this history and use it to your advantage. Such as:

1. Tom is so right for once I kid. There is a lot of money behind these key boards. I am one of the lucky ones. The Glassmen are one of the few Corps from the 60's and 70's still around. But there are some Alumni from Corps that have folded that are still around. Reach out to these people. Give them a reason to give this Activity another look see.

2. Take a look at all the Corps that have folded over the years. Start asking them if you could make some vintage tee shirts with their logo on the. Have differs OC Corps sell them at their booth. I heard something about a Corps selling SkyRyders shirts.

3. Stop designing Shows like WC Corps. Sometimes it is hard for the young adults of the WC Corps to perform Shows at 180-200bpm. Let alone the young Cats in the OC Div. What would be truly innovated is to have an OC Corps design a Show more in the Old Skool style then the new Skool style of today. Get rid of all the toys and go acoustic. This will also save the OC Corps money that could be spent in other areas of the org. Have a concert, play whole pieces of music, do some high mark time, stop the guard from dancing all over the place, and do more synchronize guard movement, bring back retreat and troop the stand after you Show is over. And by the way the above ideas will cost the Corps NO money. As a matter of fact it will save the Corps money,and may have the potential to increase the fan base.

4. Create a new scoring sheet. Take the best from the tick system and the best from today's scoring system and see what happens. Run a test at a show or two see what happens. What could it hurt?

5. I am very glad to hear that more Canadian Corps are forming. Start exploring options in creating OC Shows in Canada again. I always loved doing Shows in Canada. I can tell you for sure, that there are some very hardcore Drum Corps in Canada. They really do like their Drum Corps. REACH out to these Corps. And the Canadian fan base.

6. The bottom line, do something, anything that will set the OC Div apart from the WC Div. that will create interest in the OC Div.

7. I keep reading how DCI is not supporting the OC Div. If this is the case stop b*%!@#ing about it and make a clean break from DCI. DCI may throw a bone or two at the OC Div. by allowing them to perform at a WC Show. The problem is the OC Div. are not dogs, so stop allowing DCI to treat this great Div. as such. Take the DCI leash from around the OC Divs. neck and let the OC control their own future.

Dean

[oldschooldbc]

And to all, I bid ye welcome to this discussion. I promise to leave my broad brush at home if you do the same.

Deal?

Agreed. I really did intend for this to be an intellectual exercise, from the very start. And I have received some great assistance, in trying to calculate values for some of my indicators.

But inexorably, the thread turned into a debate onto causes of trends in some of these indicators. I really didn't want that until much later.

[oldschooldbc]

Drum Corps World does giive some decent stats for these 2 criteria:

•The number of new drum corps that begin touring in a particular year

•The total number of drum corps that fold or go inactive in a particular year

In their 2006 survey, they list 11 corps folding or going inactive, and only 2 to take their place.

In their 2004 survey, they list 14 corps folding or going inactive, and 6 corps began touring.

In the 2002 survey, they list 11 corps folding or going inactive, and 7 corps began touring.

So a pattern is emerging: new corps are being created, but the rate of failure of existing corps is too great, to keep pace.

Again, I give full credit to DCW for these statistics.

In total, there hasn't been a year with a net gain in the number of touring corps since 1999. Maybe if we ever have a net gain again, we can make like Prince, and "Party Like It's 1999."

[MikeD]

A quick check of DCI championships/regionals turns up 461 different names competing through the years.

Which has zero to do with what I posted about the corps from 1971.

[oldschooldbc]

Which has zero to do with what I posted about the corps from 1971.

But it is still interesting information. It implies that only 9% of the junior corps that have competed in DCI are still competing there.

Again, taken out of context, this information would mean very little. But looking at the totality of the information I have gathered, it is enlightening.