BD's 08 perc score

[highpitch_83]

I'll agree, they were dirty finals night, and thought they scored about right. But, to say they've gotten away with dirty lines year in and year out due to the way they tune -- nope.

2nd'd - Regardless of how you tune modern snares dirt is dirt.

[TastyWaves]

I agree with your position that a second drum judge should be brought back for major shows. Though I'm very curious as to how you throw out the idea of whatever issues they had didn't stick out to you and that the pit somehow made up for the lack of clarity in the battery? Dirt is dirt and I love listening to the BD '08 show while going for a run, but the snare line played way too many notes fat. Especially when compared to the groups around them that night.

I think most people agree that the snareline had a few rubs in it. Fine. All lines do.

But i am SO sick of these 1 sided evaluations of programs. not just for BD, but for ALL lines.

I am sick of these steak-head people who dont know how to evaluate anything but the snare voice.

A few rubs by the snare line shouldnt single handedly tank ANY group.

Again, i am getting a little off topic becasue i am speaking in generalities as opposed to just BD 08.

back on subject:

I can agree that the SNARELINE was 4th place quality, but the front ensemble (in my opinion of course) was one of the two best. The quad and bass lines as well.

In any case, didnt matter because it was a great year for percussion ensembles and the past is the past. PR happened to have an almost rub-free run in all of thier percussion voices along with everything else.

Moving on to 2010!

Edited September 9, 2009 by TastyWaves

[08ThunderBass5]

I am sick of these steak-head people who dont know how to evaluate anything but the snare voice.

Ahhhh I completely agree. I must admit I am guilty of it myself from time to time but not because I don't know anything about the other percussion sections but more because it has become "the norm" for so many people and I just fall into the trap. excellent point though

[Jeff Ream]

They were dirty. I'm a brass player and I noticed the drums were more dirty finals night than on semi's. Maybe one of the drummers got overhyped or nervous? Idk. It could just be one person that made the entire line sound dirty, right? From what I noticed it was mainly in the snareline.

it wasnt just the drums score...look at ensemble music. yes they were dirty, but they also had serious front to back issues.

as for the judges and where they have roots.....come on. you think DCI would use them if they showed an undue bias?

i still think DCI dropped the ball in not having the second percussion judge in general...wouldnt have changed anything this year...BD deserved it.

Cadets this year...bad night at finals. been covered a zillion times.

[Jeff Ream]

I think most people agree that the snareline had a few rubs in it. Fine. All lines do.

But i am SO sick of these 1 sided evaluations of programs. not just for BD, but for ALL lines.

I am sick of these steak-head people who dont know how to evaluate anything but the snare voice.

A few rubs by the snare line shouldnt single handedly tank ANY group.

Again, i am getting a little off topic becasue i am speaking in generalities as opposed to just BD 08.

back on subject:

I can agree that the SNARELINE was 4th place quality, but the front ensemble (in my opinion of course) was one of the two best. The quad and bass lines as well.

In any case, didnt matter because it was a great year for percussion ensembles and the past is the past. PR happened to have an almost rub-free run in all of thier percussion voices along with everything else.

Moving on to 2010!

agreed..it is the total ensemble. sadly the percussion community is far too snare focused. but with Phantom being tight in all sections, BD's snare issues alone would have been the decider

[TastyWaves]

agreed..it is the total ensemble. sadly the percussion community is far too snare focused. but with Phantom being tight in all sections, BD's snare issues alone would have been the decider

Absolutely.

I think Phantoms snareline ticked once in the second audition camp then it was clean all the way! lol.

But yeah, i agree that the ensemble guy was so important. I know some outside percussion thought it was extraneous, but it really does make it a difference. hopefully it will come back once there is more financial stability in the world.

[Jeff Ream]

Absolutely.

I think Phantoms snareline ticked once in the second audition camp then it was clean all the way! lol.

But yeah, i agree that the ensemble guy was so important. I know some outside percussion thought it was extraneous, but it really does make it a difference. hopefully it will come back once there is more financial stability in the world.

sadly, i predict all field judges will be gone. some band circuits do it already and there is pressure in the circuit i am involved to get field folks removed.

[CaviesFan1]

I think most people agree that the snareline had a few rubs in it. Fine. All lines do.

But i am SO sick of these 1 sided evaluations of programs. not just for BD, but for ALL lines.

I am sick of these steak-head people who dont know how to evaluate anything but the snare voice.

A few rubs by the snare line shouldnt single handedly tank ANY group.

Again, i am getting a little off topic becasue i am speaking in generalities as opposed to just BD 08.

back on subject:

I can agree that the SNARELINE was 4th place quality, but the front ensemble (in my opinion of course) was one of the two best. The quad and bass lines as well.

In any case, didnt matter because it was a great year for percussion ensembles and the past is the past. PR happened to have an almost rub-free run in all of thier percussion voices along with everything else.

Moving on to 2010!

well to that I'd say that there were some clarity issues I heard in the tenorline as well from the recording.

For example, the tenor solo where the guard members take their drums off? Not too good. sure, it's very demanding. But they shouldn't get much credit executed the way it was.

And the brief tenor solo in the drum break (the drumset, snare, tenor call and answer thing). That's rough too.

So the snareline was the most evident problem to me, but that isn't to say that the other sections didn't have their own problems.

and another point. ever listen to the finals percussion tape for phantom in 07? how many ticks in the tenor and bass lines? 0. How about the pit? 0. Snares? like 4-5. What place did they come in? 3rd.

[ssmrr]

What situation was avoided? Cadets were simply ranked AT LEAST 0.3/0.2/0.3 (Field/Ensemble/GE) better than SCV in finals. BD was then ranked 0.4/0.6/0.8 below Cadets (with easily their worst show since 1974). According to the 1987 recap book, only 3 times did a judge not have Garfield 1st on his sheet. Ironically, one of those times was 8/6, and the judge was the same fella who gave them a 10 on the field in finals. I met T. Nicholeris once and made a passing comment about "that night." He chuckled, looked me square in the eyes and said, "Man, that was something. I'd do it the same today." I wonder if Bill Doyle would, too. I think that was the first time all year Cadets beat SCV in Brass Ensemble. Does that make it wrong? And check out the really odd GE Visual numbers from semis to finals. Looks like a completely different year. If both guys judged the same night (like GE is done now), one would be hanged out to dry. Wait... turns out one was.

In 1988, Scott Koter judged BOTH semis and finals (weird year-- the finals judges were picked out of a hat): In semis, he gave Cadets a 14.8 (out of 15) with TEN corps yet to perform. The next night, they went on last. He gave SCV a 14.8 and (only) gave Cadets a 14.9. On the tape (it's on youtube), halfway through, he says, "Cadets, I have yet to hear an error." I draw one of 3 conclusions: 1) they were JUST 0.1 better than SCV; 2) if they were AT LEAST 0.2 better, no matter- he doesn't give maximum numbers; 3) they tied in his mind, but he does not award indecision. Oops. #3 is out. He had a tie for 3rd. Interesting here: comparing corps w/ semis&finals, Koter kept 5 corps in the same spots; 7 moved but not more than 2 drum placements, and Cadets won both shows. I'd love to know how he made that decision. Plus, I wonder how many guys in the snare line marched both 1987 and 1988. And which was really better?

Mr. Koter? Are you on this board?

I marched in the Cadet snareline from 87 to 92 and the best snareline I ever marched in was 89. Between 87 and 88 I say 87. We could go through that 87 show tickless. However I liked our snare sound better in 88. Teddy hung out on my end of the snare line a lot at finals and from the look on his face I thought he was in a trance. Honestly I have never heard his tape I think he said nothing on it and just followed us around the whole show.

[big old drummer man]

But yeah, i agree that the ensemble guy was so important. I know some outside percussion thought it was extraneous, but it really does make it a difference. hopefully it will come back once there is more financial stability in the world.

yes, please, bring him back. it can make a HUGE difference.