Uniformed Personnel in Empire Statesmen Retreat

[Cathie Wiener]

Being a former Air Force member I thought the idea was great and even better now that I know they were actual members of the armed forces and public services. I thought it was a nice tribute.

[JoeDz]

The corps went to great lengths to make sure everything was done according to every and any existing rule and regulation (not just drum corps rules, but US military regulations as well). Great work by Jimmy Steele to get this idea on the field.

Tom,

As I did when you announced your "Taps" scholarship winners, I proudly salute you......

CLASS.........Statesmen style.

Joe Dz in NJ

Joe Dziezawiec

LTC (Ret), Field Artillery

[Buddyscudder]

Tom,

As I did when you announced your "Taps" scholarship winners, I proudly salute you......

CLASS.........Statesmen style.

Joe Dz in NJ

Joe Dziezawiec

LTC (Ret), Field Artillery

As a proud veteran of the USAF, and certainly not lowly, I was glad to hear that Empire used actual members of the armed services. I'm glad they did the research to make sure all regs were followed. However, there's one glaring flaw. Our "Pledge of Allegiance" is recited while standing at attention with a hand over our heart, or with a hand salute if in service uniform with hat on, or if you are on active duty or are a veteran, you may render a hand salute regardless of dress. Not, I repeat, not walking backward. Read the flag code. It's simple.

[SunSop66]

To me that's a welcomed blast from the past. When a corps used to have a member in the service they would wear their military uniform rather than the corps', and it wasn't just the honor guard. Thank you Empire Statesmen for reminding Drum Corps of where it came from.

As in the Sunrisers Frank Dorritie in uniform - 1969 Barnum Festival, off the line.

[mellonick]

Since I started this thread, I'll explain. I did not take issue with ES use of uniformed personnel in their show. My question stemmed from retreat and the folks in uniform saluting the drumline as it returned to the block. It kinda rubbed me the wrong way in the moment. It runs contrary to military customs and courtesies where only the Colors and officers of higher rank are saluted. The proper thing to do would have been to call the honor guard to attention. They also were positioned in front of the Colors which I also found odd.

Thanks for your support.

Edited September 8, 2009 by mellonick

[Tom D'Bomb]

Since I started this thread, I'll explain. I did not take issue with ES use of uniformed personnel in their show. My question stemmed from retreat and the folks in uniform saluting the drumline as it returned to the block. It kinda rubbed me the wrong way in the moment. It runs contrary to military customs and courtesies where only the Colors and officers of higher rank are saluted. The proper thing to do would have been to call the honor guard to attention. They also were positioned in front of the Colors which I also found odd.

Thanks for your support.

They were allowed to be in front of the flag as long as NO OTHER FLAG is in front of the American flag. As far as saluting our drumline as they broke from one formation to another, I don't know about that. They may have done that as a personal show of respect to the young people they had recently spent a lot of time with during the weekend. (Again I don't know for sure).

A few of the members of that group are active members of Reservist Honor Guards ... if there is a rule on how to act during a drum and bugle corps award ceremony, I'm sure they would follow it word for word.

I really hope we aren't going to debate every detail of our show because we absolutely tip-toed around every detail to make sure we were as respectful and within regulation as possible in every way. We constantly asked experts on this topic for advice.

I'm sure that somewhere in the cloudy territory between Military Code (the most un-cloudy thing in the world) and "theatrical drum corps show design" (the cloudiest thing in the world) something was missed. We would never intentionally bend a rule.

We knew some stuff would be touchy - mostly because we couldn't find real answers about civilian conduct during a "the performance of a theatrical show."

I hate it when people say I apologize "If I offended anyone." But that's all I can say. I assure you our intent was to be respectful.

If there are any experts out there - please don't leave me hanging.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Tom D'Bomb

[steelcityrabbit]

As in the Sunrisers Frank Dorritie in uniform - 1969 Barnum Festival, off the line.

Cool, I never knew of this happening, a bit before my time. When it was 1st mentioned in this thread, I thought maybe for retreats.

[steelcityrabbit]

Thanks for your service.... I agree.

And thank you for yours.

[steelcityrabbit]

Please do not confuse what the Statesmen did in the 80's with what you saw last night. The 80's corps caught a ot of flack for having civilian corps members performing in military attire ('88 specifically), but the 2009 corps had REAL heroes proudly wearing their own uniforms.

The corps went to great lengths to make sure everything was done according to every and any existing rule and regulation (not just drum corps rules, but US military regulations as well). Great work by Jimmy Steele to get this idea on the field.

A lot of corps talk about "education," and "enrichment," and use that as an excuse for not being "for the crowd." The Empire Statesmen have always been always been all three, but because the corps is entertainment-oriented it often gets overlooked.

The members of the 2009 Empire Statesmen learned some geat lessons doing "Out of Many, One: The American Destiny."

No mistaking the two here Tom. I was just adding to sam's statements on the 80's corps, since I had a real problem with it back then just like alot of others.

I have not seen the 2009 ES show, except for the 3 minutes they posted here last night. Any corps that has Joey Pero screaming on the front sidelines is dang OK in my book.

You state:

"corps talk about "education," and "enrichment," and use that as an excuse for not being "for the crowd."

I couldn't agree more with your statemnet "

Long live the entertainers of DCA

[heavyrifleguy]

They were allowed to be in front of the flag as long as NO OTHER FLAG is in front of the American flag. As far as saluting our drumline as they broke from one formation to another, I don't know about that. They may have done that as a personal show of respect to the young people they had recently spent a lot of time with during the weekend. (Again I don't know for sure).

A few of the members of that group are active members of Reservist Honor Guards ... if there is a rule on how to act during a drum and bugle corps award ceremony, I'm sure they would follow it word for word.

I really hope we aren't going to debate every detail of our show because we absolutely tip-toed around every detail to make sure we were as respectful and within regulation as possible in every way. We constantly asked experts on this topic for advice.

I'm sure that somewhere in the cloudy territory between Military Code (the most un-cloudy thing in the world) and "theatrical drum corps show design" (the cloudiest thing in the world) something was missed. We would never intentionally bend a rule.

We knew some stuff would be touchy - mostly because we couldn't find real answers about civilian conduct during a "the performance of a theatrical show."

I hate it when people say I apologize "If I offended anyone." But that's all I can say. I assure you our intent was to be respectful.

If there are any experts out there - please don't leave me hanging.

The responsibility for the Honor Guard saluting the drum line is mine alone. I called "present arms" as the drum line returned to the Empire formation as a show of respect for them. If a rule was violated, it is my fault, certainly not the service guys. If our show of respect for these people who worked so hard all year offended someone-I'm sorry----not for saluting, but for being ignorant of this infraction.

Gary