liebot Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 No. I dont think it is.Considering this is a group of people who bought the corps, saving it from extinction. Considering that they have put unmeasurable effort into the making this thing work. Considering that they do not go into every season saying,"hey gang let get 16th!" or "hey team lets be mediocre!" Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to spend your money and summer with the Crossmen. If you do not want to be there, and have other "dream corps" to be spending your time with, then by all means, go! While it is valuable that veterans fill the necessity that they stick around for the good of the corps, is having a bunch of bitter vets really much of a positive thing? Could vets who stick around for the sake of sticking around give the wrong impression to the leadership? Yes, for sure it could. Perhaps the leadership would better realize that they need to please their members faster if members went elsewhere because they were unhappy. Perhaps questions like yours are those that should be asked before paying your dues. Proclaiming, "I blame you because I chose to stay," is fairly shallow. First I just want to say that I'm not talking about myself, but several people I know from the Northeast that have been members for awhile. I aged out last year anyway. Second, I think you're missing the point. These veterans aren't bitter. The people I'm thinking about showed up to every camp (that they could afford to fly to) prepared, in shape, and ready to get the season going. They're the people that were motivating others to reach their full potential, pushing it every day out on the rehearsal field. I can think of a couple of people that literally did everything they possibly could to better the corps and make the experience a positive one for the people around them. They're model members, and ANY drum corps would kill to have people like them in their organization. I think it's a little unfair to say "Yeah, you should just leave." You, as a FMM, should know more than anybody that drum corps isn't JUST about performing a show on a field - it's about the experience, the family, the friends that you meet and the bonds that you share with 149 sweaty, smelly people over the course of the summer. To just move on and leave the family you have at a corps behind is a tough, tough thing for anybody to do. Especially people that have been marching there for three or four or five years. So should they just sit there and suffer? I agree that this isn't something that people should go around b*tching about all summer, ruining things for the people around them and making the organization suffer just because they're unhappy. But having a small group of very dedicated, well-liked, multi-year members in leadership positions approach the corps leadership at the end of the summer to talk to them about a change that they (and other members they've spoken with) think should be made seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do, and I think the corps would do well to take those concerns seriously. Look, I understand the immense amount of work that Fred and Mark and Maureen put into the organization, and I appreciate it immensely. I am very happy that the Crossmen still exist, which is something that might not be true had the move to Texas not happened. There are a lot of great, hardworking, respectful, caring people working behind the scenes to make the operation run, and if there's one thing I regret about this discussion happening is that it could possibly be construed to mean that they're not working as hard as they should be. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm just saying that there have been very clear indications by members, alumni, and fans that something should be changed with the music arranging, and the corps administration has done nothing to rectify that. I mean, everything else aside, has there been a single person in this thread that's posted talking about how much they love Guidry's arrangements? The only thing I've heard is some very qualified acceptance of the 2008 show as being good. There is NOBODY on here saying that the Crossmen need Guidry, that his arrangements are brilliant, that they've loved those shows. If I missed that post, please point it out to me. It just seems like the corps leadership is just putting on the blinders and pretending like nothing is wrong. Which doesn't seem like the right thing to do. -- i.e., having actual conversations with the people involved. Was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd&10 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Ok, so if the brass arranger sucks, the brass caption head is good and the percussion guy just became the program coordinator WHY WAS DARRYL PEMBERTON FIRED??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaners Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 TSRTS13 and anyone else, Allow me to be more clear. Returning members are extremely important if they are doing it for the right reasons. Family, friends, experiences, traditions of the corps, love of the red Cross around your neck; these are great reasons to return. These are the reasons I returned. Placing my money, effort, and time for all those reasons into flying across the country for camps and summer proved to be more important to me than how the corps placed in competition. I commend every veteran who returned for the these reasons, and thank them for keeping my corps value alive. On the other hand, those returning members who did it as a favor to the corps, who returned with the notion that the corps needs them to succeed, who returned with bitterness about returning. Those are the people whom need to ask themselves, "what is more important to me?" It is amazing how one negative person can influence every corps member around them. As a member, I was consistently aggravated by veterans who chose to be negitive, who chose to bring the corps mentality down. Personally the only way I accomplish ANYTHING in my life is with an unfaltering attitude of "YES I CAN."... repeated in my head thousands of times. (btw, i learned this from the 05 corps director, Larry Markiewicz). As an educator myself, I will gladly take 10 positive and excited rookies over 1 bitter and negative vet, anyday. You ask what has the board done to insure a quality product. Well that answer is obvious in the year to year development of the staff and design team, especially for 2010. I do not see how you can expect a fresh administration to put the worlds best drum corp show on the field after 3 years. I look at the corps admin and I see group of professionals who are willing to grow together and build a foundation for the Crossmen to last. I see a board who knows the easy way out when they see it, and who knows that the easy way out does not accomplish the long term goals they might have in mind. I see a group of educators who give trust in their personel, wanting them to succeed as individuals as well. Are those values not family? Are those values not what the Crossmen are about? Do i think guidry's output is amazing? no. Do i think the shows the past 3 years have been great? no. Is that really whats important? No. I am still willing to trust this group of human beings whom seem to know what they want for the corps in a long term spectrum. As a donor (for the very years that you, TSRTS13, marched in) I am proud that my corps is on the field and I can see that the values I care about still exist within the administration and staff. It is unfortunately that people on here, including current marching members and veterans, will speak so crudely and presumptuously about the corps and the people that they belong to. In the end this type of speech is what will hurt the Crossmen FAR worse then any designer they bring on board. To further express that point; If those of you reading this thread noticed, earlier I was posting with someone about 2005. They mentioned how they really enjoyed the music of that year. Then I responded about the various crowd responses. Then a small tangent appeared about how bad the design of that show was. Soon after, a new poster appeared stating, "Crossmen 2005 at Giants stadium was the show that got me hooked on drum corps... definitely the most entertaining corps of the night." Was the show perfect? No. Did we make finals? No. Did every member return the next year? Nope. Did the board make the right changes to bring the corps back up in 2006? No. BUT knowing that my performance directly influenced the love of drum corps in that one "wide-eyed bando" makes it ALL worth it. I would give nothing up for that night as a Crossmen in Giants stadium. It is unfortunate that whomever that person is ended up in this thread, and is reading pages of terrible remarks about the very corps who got him started in this whole thing. ~shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kac Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) What has the corps leadership done to ensure that the musical product that Aaron Guidry hands the arrangers is something worthy of being performed by 150 members who put in over $2000, hours of practice over the course of the winter, and every single hour of their summer into the show?Because nothing that he's put out so far has done that. It's a huge disservice to the members, especially those that have been part of the corps since 2003, 2004, or 2005, have spent thousands of dollars on plane tickets from the Northeast to Texas, and repeatedly given up the chance to march at their dream corps to "Further The Crossmen," only to leave each season disappointed and bitter that they were handed a product that never had the chance to be what they wanted it to be. Is that a fair question? Yes absolutely thanks! ETA- you guys keep going with the thread. I'm going to duck out for a while but will come back & consolidate all of the questions into a document if you'd like so that this can be productive. Edited October 9, 2009 by kac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassmeaway Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Shane: of the years you marched, did the arranger ever show up in person and work with the corps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnOverInnovation Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) First I just want to say that I'm not talking about myself, but several people I know from the Northeast that have been members for awhile. I aged out last year anyway.Second, I think you're missing the point. These veterans aren't bitter. The people I'm thinking about showed up to every camp (that they could afford to fly to) prepared, in shape, and ready to get the season going. They're the people that were motivating others to reach their full potential, pushing it every day out on the rehearsal field. I can think of a couple of people that literally did everything they possibly could to better the corps and make the experience a positive one for the people around them. They're model members, and ANY drum corps would kill to have people like them in their organization. I think it's a little unfair to say "Yeah, you should just leave." You, as a FMM, should know more than anybody that drum corps isn't JUST about performing a show on a field - it's about the experience, the family, the friends that you meet and the bonds that you share with 149 sweaty, smelly people over the course of the summer. To just move on and leave the family you have at a corps behind is a tough, tough thing for anybody to do. Especially people that have been marching there for three or four or five years. So should they just sit there and suffer? I agree that this isn't something that people should go around b*tching about all summer, ruining things for the people around them and making the organization suffer just because they're unhappy. But having a small group of very dedicated, well-liked, multi-year members in leadership positions approach the corps leadership at the end of the summer to talk to them about a change that they (and other members they've spoken with) think should be made seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do, and I think the corps would do well to take those concerns seriously. I absolute would like to reiterate everything said in this great post. As a long time member of the Crossmen, I do not wish to march anywhere else. I want the best for my corps. My first season with the corps, I marched expecting a guaranteed spot in finals. I mean, why not? The corps hadn't been out of finals since '88. This is '05 I'm talking about, of course. And during my rookie year, I fell in love with the traditions of the corps. When we got knocked out of finals, I knew that i had to come back and see things through. I made it my mission to see that this great organization would make it back into finals. Since then, the corps and I have been through a lot. I no longer base my goals solely on making finals; I am older and much wiser now. All I want is to put on a great performance. One that will be remembered fondly, and one that I will enjoy performing as much as it is enjoyed by the audience. And once I have done that, I want to sign the age out flag. That's all i want. No more, no less. I can confidently say that I as a performer, have not enjoyed playing my show's music since (early season) 2006. Not a single note written by Guidry for the hornline has been anywhere near as enjoyable to play as the work of Drew Shanefeld and/or Andy Yozviak (before the brass book was ruined by the caption head). I'm sorry to say it, my friends, but you have to hear this. Returning each year is a challenge enough because of the corps' new location, but up until now, I have managed to do it. Why do I continue to return each year? Out of love for my corps. Do I plan on returning again for the 2010 season? I'm not sure yet, but then again I never am at this point in the year. I won't let an irrational hatred of Guidry's music get in the way of my marching, but I am a little disappointed, to be honest. A good brass book would probably make my decision easier. And seeing as the brass book has not been written yet, I'm not really sure what the purpose of this post is anymore. So I'm going to just trail off into nothingness now... Nice weather we're having. Edited October 9, 2009 by HopOnOverInnovation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Since then, the corps and I have been through a lot. I no longer base my goals solely on making finals; I am older and much wider now. Really....all that marching and you're getting wider? Strange...the opposite happened to me.... hey look at that....'d' is next to 's' on the keyboard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 it is possible to grow wider on tour..... I've seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnOverInnovation Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Darn it, in before the edit. I hate you guys. And yes, for the record, I'm probably one of those angry vets who should stop marching altogether. Edited October 9, 2009 by HopOnOverInnovation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaners Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 BrassMeAway, Yes, each year i marched the music arrangers were in volved with the corps. I have a feeling you knew that already. HopOnOverInnovation, read my last post... # 203 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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