Thank You DCI!

[liebot]

Crown's hornline = immaculate. Release of the ballad = perfect.

[Jeff Ream]

Oh, and the reverb was MUCH less on the CDs than it was live. Good work kudos to the engineers.

But it will prompt some to only buy CD/DVDs instead of attending the event...

so skip going live and wait for the cd's?

[Jeff Ream]

Balance is rarely bad in person. I blame it on poor mic placement and recording issues.

Really, I've never had trouble hearing a hornline in person because of the pit.

didnt see Crown at Allentown did ya?

[kickhaltsforlife]

so skip going live and wait for the cd's?

yes.. unless you can get one of the few "good" seats, haha. Still skip going live...

[nemesiscorps]

just got my CD's... it sounds very manufactured, but they did a good job cleaning it up. It sounds a lot better than what I heard in person. Except for a few corps who decided they didn't want their low brass heard so they cranked up those synths on the bass part.... stupid, it makes a good hornline sounds weaker because it doesn't ring like the rest of the brass... and low stuff had enough trouble being heard in the echo dome. Okay, mini rant done.

Overall the CDs aren't bad though.

I'm sure there must be a thread somewhere evaluating the quality of the 2009 DCI recordings, but I can't find it, so here's my critique.

With the exception of the attempts to "clean up" the quality of the overall sound (which I agree results in a less than pleasing, manufactured sounding product), I am very disappointed in these recordings. This is no fault of the recording engineers, but instead, my uneducated guess is that it is all due to the terrible acoustical environment that Lucas Oil Stadium is for our "outdoor" pageantry arts activity. In fact, IMO the 2009 DCI World Championship recordings are without question the worst I've ever heard of any the DCI Championship Finals recordings. The overall quality of sound is terrible, particularly as it relates to balance. Admittedly, I know nothing about the processes that are used in making these recordings (mixing, etc.), but I do know what I like. Without being too extreme, these recordings almost sound like a field judge's tape, with the judge standing directly in front of the pit during the entire show.

Whatever was done almost any previous year (for example, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1995, 2001) blows away this 2009 product by far. This is obviously the difference between recording indoors vs. outdoors. Here's my short list of concerns.

1. PIT TOO LOUD! (Obviously) Clearly they couldn't do anything about that during production, but unfortunately it screws up everything else. The front ensemble is not balanced/blended with anything else on the field (we of course, heard this live as well). We've reached a point where the reverse is being achieved of what was originally intended (the pit enhancing the field ensemble). Now the pit dominates everything, with the rest of the corps sounding like they are supporting the front ensemble.

2. With the exception of a few of the "best" horn lines (i.e. Crown, SCV, Cavaliers), It' a struggle to hear all of the voices in the brass choir, particularly those voices on the low end. To me, one of the best examples of this poor quality is with BD... VERY unimpressive full brass sound, if one is willing to be objective. - Side note: Beyond the recording sound quality issues, they are so "top heavy," and a ton of over-blowing from individuals is obvious throughout. I can also hear very obvious intonation issues with lead trumpets from time to time, along with "feet in the bells." An undefeated season?

3. It's really hard to hear the different battery percussion voices when the full music ensemble is performing. Had I not seen these shows live for myself and just listened to these recordings, I'd swear that most of those corps didn't bother to march their bass drum lines at all in Indy. In many cases I can't hear the articulated, tonal bass drums, or in some cases you can't hear any bass drums at all. It seems as though only the "highs" (upper voices - trumpets, snares, etc.) come through with any significant distinction throughout the shows (mellophones excluded). In general, battery percussion sounds like they are parked on the back sideline of the field... or maybe even behind the black curtain. Nothing seems to cut through.

4. Brandt's voice is distant and muffled sounding, not prominent and powerful as in the past. If you don't know the activity, you'd be hard pressed in some cases to even be able to understand what he's saying. These recordings do not do justice to the "voice of DCI."

5. The crowd reactions and responses to the live shows are a unique part of the performance experience, to the point where (at least in 2008) corps programed crowd interaction into their shows. What we hear on these recordings (crowd volume wise) sounds like the responses from the people that had to sit in the backfield stands at a regular show. You can barely hear the crowd at all in these recordings. I'd swear they're using studio recordings of the corps, with a generic, mixed-in crowd response track, kind of like on t.v. with sit-coms. It's weak at best.

6. From a pure volume standpoint, there seems to be minimal "impact" where audible impact is obviously what is being attempted. This goes for brass, percussion, and the full ensemble. Compare sound quality/mixing of the 1984 Garfield Cadets to the 2009 Holy Name Cadets recordings. Need more be said?

My view is that this place (LOS) is REALLY BAD FOR RECORDING these live acoustical events. Let's hope the DVD's can do better, with the addition of sight to enhance the sounds of the 2009 World Championships.

Speaking of the sounds of DCI, I can't recall the name of the gentleman that was responsible for producing over two decades of the DCI Championships audio recordings, but I sure do miss him these days. No slam on the recording engineers of 2009, they've got their work cut out for them, but that guy from the 70's through the mid 90's was legendary. IMO, they need to find his playbook and steal a few pages. If he's not already in the DCI Hall of Fame, he should be.

[BOBSMYTH]

...

In fact, IMO the 2009 DCI World Championship recordings are without question the worst I've ever heard of any the DCI Championship Finals recordings.

...

Wow.

I just happened to be listening to the CD's right now. I have quite a different reaction than your review.

I have recordings of drum corps shows going all the way back to pre-DCI. The 2009 CD doesn't even make my top ten of "the worst I've ever heard" (if I had such a list). Even that comment leaves too much of a negative connotation. The 2009 CD's are in the good to very good range.

About the only comment I agree with is that Brandt Crocker's voice does seem to be a little distant - but I would guess that has more to do with mic placement than anything else.

As for the comments about the stadium being the problem - EVERY stadium has its own set of unique recording challenges. From Whitewater to Mile High to Camp Randall to Lucas Oil, each environment causes variations in the capturing of the sound and variations in the reproducing of that recording into what we hear in the final product. Short of getting each corps into a recording studio, that will never change.

Instead of blaming the stadium or pit amplification (or perhaps the lack of G horns in other threads) for whatever it is we don't like, we need to come up with some additional, alternate theories.

I'll start - maybe the sound is difficult to reproduce on a CD because the performers are all marching around the field at 1,000,000 bpm with wide and varied field coverage and placement. And thus, there is no mic placement configuration you can conceive of that will ever capture all of the nuances and detail of the performance. B

ecause they are moving so fast, it is difficult for each of the individual performers to produce the ultimate sound on every note throughout the entire 11 minute performance.

I am going to go back now and turn back on my CD and enjoy it thoroughly.

[skewerz]

Wow.

I just happened to be listening to the CD's right now. I have quite a different reaction than your review.

I have recordings of drum corps shows going all the way back to pre-DCI. The 2009 CD doesn't even make my top ten of "the worst I've ever heard" (if I had such a list). Even that comment leaves too much of a negative connotation. The 2009 CD's are in the good to very good range.

About the only comment I agree with is that Brandt Crocker's voice does seem to be a little distant - but I would guess that has more to do with mic placement than anything else.

As for the comments about the stadium being the problem - EVERY stadium has its own set of unique recording challenges. From Whitewater to Mile High to Camp Randall to Lucas Oil, each environment causes variations in the capturing of the sound and variations in the reproducing of that recording into what we hear in the final product. Short of getting each corps into a recording studio, that will never change.

Instead of blaming the stadium or pit amplification (or perhaps the lack of G horns in other threads) for whatever it is we don't like, we need to come up with some additional, alternate theories.

I'll start - maybe the sound is difficult to reproduce on a CD because the performers are all marching around the field at 1,000,000 bpm with wide and varied field coverage and placement. And thus, there is no mic placement configuration you can conceive of that will ever capture all of the nuances and detail of the performance. B

ecause they are moving so fast, it is difficult for each of the individual performers to produce the ultimate sound on every note throughout the entire 11 minute performance.

I am going to go back now and turn back on my CD and enjoy it thoroughly.

hmmm...nope..I blame the stadium. Bass lines are virtually non-existent on the recordings. I'm guessing they had to filter out so much of the low end to get rid of the echoes and mush, that they lost everything low, from basses to tubas...

Another thing about general drum corps music is that when you are in the crowd, you don't hear the very minimal mistakes the kids sometimes make. When you have to clean up the recording SO much to make it sound acceptable, those little mistakes pop out, and you will now hear those little mistakes...overblowing and intonation problems...

Part of what makes drum corps music so great for me, is that you don't hear every tiny little thing. You hear this great, massive wall of sound...a balance of voices, and not the sound of individuals...

as they said in that movie.....one band...one sound. (oh, I'm gonna get flamed for that one..hehe)

[kickhaltsforlife]

hmmm...nope..I blame the stadium. Bass lines are virtually non-existent on the recordings. I'm guessing they had to filter out so much of the low end to get rid of the echoes and mush, that they lost everything low, from basses to tubas...

Another thing about general drum corps music is that when you are in the crowd, you don't hear the very minimal mistakes the kids sometimes make. When you have to clean up the recording SO much to make it sound acceptable, those little mistakes pop out, and you will now hear those little mistakes...overblowing and intonation problems...

Part of what makes drum corps music so great for me, is that you don't hear every tiny little thing. You hear this great, massive wall of sound...a balance of voices, and not the sound of individuals...

as they said in that movie.....one band...one sound. (oh, I'm gonna get flamed for that one..hehe)

Yup. The low stuff it what was echoing around the dome. On one of the threads complaining about LOS people who know acoustics said the reason the low stuff echoed so much was because all the high stuff was absorbed by the big black curtain. I think that's what was said.

I blame the CD problems on pits being too loud, and the stadium. Last years recordings were great, except a few corps who had the volume dial up to high. So mic placement is not the problem.

Overall though, listening to the CDs is more enjoyable than listening live in the stadium, which is a sad sad sad thing.

Basically finals, our premier event, is going to suck until we get out of that place. Anything recording from finals is going to suck. Boooo.. it just proves that this is an outdoor activity only.

[dcpacheco]

I have never understood why CD recordings are not done in a pre stage area before Quarterfinals. It's likely the quality would go way up, and you don't miss anything other than the sound of the crowd and the announcer. It would be a nice way to pump up the corps before quarterfinals as well.

[Jeff Ream]

honestly, the pit will be an issue as long as mics are left on the field. look where they place them...on the ends of the pit. where do the amps usually go?

by the ends of the pit