Jaminbenb Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Hmm. Yeah I heard about the people in the gutters at those Balmer parades. That was just before I signed on. I knew the HANOVER song... just we never sang it enough for me to learn it. I'd argue Chant and Jubilo is a good piece for a competitive band if you: Edit the heck out of the chant to just a few seconds to lead into the first hit. Crank the initial stuff to at least 144 and NOT slow down and let the piece bog. The final section has to run at least 160+ and haul. I can see writing some pretty decent material percussionwise for the fast part- I might suprise some of you with some ideas for that. I hung around enough of you perc people for long enough to have a good feel for groove. If I can't write it I could say it... I know for a band entering serious compeition, I could make the chart work. Trust me. I wouldn't set the piece on cruise control like the tendency to do with it is. It'd be going like the Batmobile with the jet exhaust down the streets of Gotham. No boring crap out of me. The REAL issue with M-Town was kind of glossed over in the discussion and just the fact you do William Francis McBeth for an opener then switch to Brian Wilson, then to Jim Jones, for God's sake, the program effect-wise had no real flow and connections! Also, no branding for the band as to what their identity was! Even by 1989 and before that, most quality competitive bands had a handle on things like that! When I was at LD scouting, that was the usual issue. Neat Wind Ensemble opener, then a bunch of silly powder-fluff to end the program that had no connection nor made sense with that opener. Lemme tell you-- Williamsport BITD with Paul Kellerman- at least when he did Wind Ensemble, he picked three tunes that generally flowed well and connected from one piece to another in regards to pacing and interest. THey also played insanely clean for that era. Ben, Rook, and I watched them at an ACC's in Scranton BITD when they were still smokin' and my comment was, "I *May* have heard one performance issue for the entire show." The last year Paul had them- still great, but not as clean. Maybe my ears were a lot better. I would say, a combination of the two. Paul was crazy! Great guy to work with...when Schell did their music a few years I got to go hang, and ended up writing their drum solo (Korean Folk Song suite or something or other...that was the night Bowser and I did the "black key boogie" on Brian's marimba, and he wrote it all down, and made it into a solo....) But I digress... Sam (and Degler before him) NEVER knew the concept of a "cohesive show" and we could never figure out what they smoked, drank, or rubbed into their bellies when they picked field show music I think my senior year we did Strike up the Band, Baubles Bangles and Beads, the Muppet show as a drum solo, and ended with Long Live God into Jesus Christ Superstar as an exit?!?! (there was something else, but forget what it was...) The year before it was something else that didn't go together...just a myriad of songs... no identity which is correct! Edited May 31, 2012 by Jaminbenb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 I thought I did at some point...still one of my favorite Sam stories! I agree with that exactly! A lady I worked with at Nationwide had kids in the band at the time Sam was transitioning to the middle school and she said that he was so hard to work with from a band parent standpoint and could only wonder what he was like to work with from an instructor standpoint (I told he that he apparently hadn't changed much since I was there) She also said that his field show choices music-wise were always (I forget which show she gave me as an example, she said it was in so many different directions musically that the kids virtually HATED it.) When did Skee finally say "I'm out of here!" I know he didn't like Sam too much, and said he preferred Degler because he pretty much left him alone, and didn't give him a whole lot of boundaries to stay within, so he did what he wanted (granted, we pretty much used stock music for the field show, but Skee would tweak a few things here and there, and write the street times and drum solos) Funny you mention Danny at Cagnoli's... I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a picture of the drum set on a website....remember Dan had that red swirl set of Pearls? Cag's had the same set in blue, and I was at a point where I wanted to buy a new set, but wasn't pursuing it like a mad man yet... (and actually didn't buy one for a few years at that point) I was weighing a lot of options. I happened to stop over Cag's for something, and Dan was working that night. I remember checking out that blue set, and saying that it looked good, shame we couldn't play it to see how it sounded...he said "I have the identical set in red at my house...look, it's slow as heck in here, let's run down really quick and check it out, I'll let you hear how it sounds." So we did, I played it, liked it, (and put it on the list as a consideration, although the drums were slightly over my price range, I also liked the rack system and that put it WAY over my range) When we got back to the store, Kevin was PIZZED because he left! I said it was my fault, I wanted too hear the drums, etc....but he didn't let up on Dan, and pretty much put me into a "I'm not dealing with this moron's store" attitude and decided that I wasn't going to buy that set from them...(and I think I ended up not buying a set for a few years) Dan did right as far as I'm concerned, he went the extra mile to make a sale! (and Kevin was a jerk! which made ME mad since I used to drop a LOT of cash there as far as sound equipment went) I only ever used Cags because of Dan. as for Sam....well....true story. Remember the 89 Frisco quake? Well at roughly the same time, Sam went off on the parking lot rehearsal field at Middletown over something stupid. Circled the band, yelling, screaming...Shade and I tried to get him off to he side so we could restart rehearsal and calm him down, then he snapped at us....well, right there, in front of the kids, I barked back. hell i was only 20, what did I care? Told him if he yells at me again, I'm pulling my notesand he's screwed for the rest of the season, and he needed the drumline, because we were winning and he wasn't. I'm sure hat led to what followed, but he is one of two directors to make accusations about me and kids. With Sam, I just drove a letter of resignation to the school that night and gave it to the principal. Explained why since I didnt go into details in the letter, and he understood and told me I'd never get a bad reference from the school ( and I didn't). The other...well....W and I kinda got into it about that one on the lone Westshore alum bus trip to Archie's show. That one left a severe burn, and a huge dislike of a few people who have been mentioned lovingly in this thread. I'll leave it at that. but rule #1 is dont #### the kids. Never did. My rule #2 is don't falsely accuse me of it. It could cost you your job, and in the second case, it definitely almost happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Crap....Sam was FAMOUS for freaking rants! We all thought that maybe his wife failed to give him some those mornings, but what a dooooshbag sometimes! Once he picked up a chair and acted like he was going to throw it...one of the flute players headed for cover! (I'll have to remind her of that, she's a FB friend ) Yeah, his temper wasn't conducive to working with kids...was the principal Casper Voithofer? If so, I still see him occasionally, he works for a marketing company that does demo's at the Wine and Spirits shops! The first time I saw him in there it was like "really? from principal to bartender!" Cags had good sound equipment (and decent prices) during a time when no one else really carried much of it.... What tweaked me for the drum incident was that I was a pretty good customer to Kevin, and thought that Dan deserved a pat on the back for going the extra mile to try to make that sale! It wasn't like I never dropped any $$$ in there! (and it wasn't like nobody else was there, either!) I think that was probably one of the last times I went there...I was only in the store when they moved out on 322 once years later...and only because my wife had to go to another store over there, and I didn't want to go in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Crap....Sam was FAMOUS for freaking rants! We all thought that maybe his wife failed to give him some those mornings, but what a dooooshbag sometimes! Once he picked up a chair and acted like he was going to throw it...one of the flute players headed for cover! (I'll have to remind her of that, she's a FB friend ) Yeah, his temper wasn't conducive to working with kids...was the principal Casper Voithofer? If so, I still see him occasionally, he works for a marketing company that does demo's at the Wine and Spirits shops! The first time I saw him in there it was like "really? from principal to bartender!" Cags had good sound equipment (and decent prices) during a time when no one else really carried much of it.... What tweaked me for the drum incident was that I was a pretty good customer to Kevin, and thought that Dan deserved a pat on the back for going the extra mile to try to make that sale! It wasn't like I never dropped any $$$ in there! (and it wasn't like nobody else was there, either!) I think that was probably one of the last times I went there...I was only in the store when they moved out on 322 once years later...and only because my wife had to go to another store over there, and I didn't want to go in... the worst part about Sams rants is the kids tuned out. Look I have had a rant or 3 in my days, but I kept em short and sweet so the kids didnt tune out. not only on that one did the kids tune out, but he bashed his staff as part of his rant. Very jealous of the success of others. When we went into critique, he didnt want me talking to the music judges. I mean heaven forbid I could do something to help the program out I've won drums, I've lost drums. Big ####### deal. I want the whole porgram to succeed, and if the music guys can give input on percussion thatcan help, or on something that isnt working, i want to know. granted to many back then, and even too many today, "drums are too loud" is the extent of their feedback. but that's a rant not for this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 the worst part about Sams rants is the kids tuned out. Look I have had a rant or 3 in my days, but I kept em short and sweet so the kids didnt tune out. not only on that one did the kids tune out, but he bashed his staff as part of his rant. Very jealous of the success of others. When we went into critique, he didnt want me talking to the music judges. I mean heaven forbid I could do something to help the program out I've won drums, I've lost drums. Big ####### deal. I want the whole porgram to succeed, and if the music guys can give input on percussion thatcan help, or on something that isnt working, i want to know. granted to many back then, and even too many today, "drums are too loud" is the extent of their feedback. but that's a rant not for this forum I agree! A rant is one thing if it's justified, or the kids are in need of motivation (i.e. Eric Kitchenman rants ) The fact that the band director was NOT pushing for full unit integrity is a freaking SIN! I encountered the same deal at Cedar Crest when I was helping Flipalippy for indoor and then outdoor the next season...their band director had a problem with the drummers being "excellent" and found any reason he could to punish them...case in point, Joe Itkor and another guy got nailed for something stupid when we were practicing at their middle school I went to the band director and said it wasn't fair to punish them because a. everyone was playing with the instruments (we were in their band room, and we were all messing with their percussion instruments..not knowing that he said "no touchy") and b. no one told ME (who was the instructor of the day, Steve was not making that practice) that no one was supposed to touch the stuff. The response I got was; "Ok, if you're going to press the issue then I'll pull the plug on the whole indoor program! Don't go running to Steve about it, because if I DO hear that you did, I WILL pull the plug!!!" Ok...so I'm 19 and not really into having that whole fiasco on my back so I kept my mouth shut.... Thankfully after that season, I decided to leave and work for Brian...that was a bad situation! If I (or anyone else I worked with) ever did something stupid, the band directors never called us out in front of the kids! They'd pull you aside and say "we gotta talk", deal with the issue one on one and be done with it!! AS far as the whole program THAT'S WHAT IT IS! Not JUST the drumline, the guard, the freaking mags! We wanted everyone to succeed! And yeah, I've been involved with some crappy lines, and I've been involved with some great lines...it's ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY and life is good! Dave Rorhrer, Noel Kunkel, Dane Hildebrand...all top notch guys that I've had the pleasure of working with in depth! Guys like Paul Kellerman, Tommy Turnbull, Dave Deitz, etc..all guys that I've had some interaction with that were great!! The respect I have for those guys is HUGE! They put out some dang good products, did it right, and we had fun doing it! Guys like Sam and Bob from Crest I have NO respect for whatsoever! They did it WRONG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Not everyone gets along. All I know is nothing was said for the 6 years I was at LD about the previous situations. I was given an opportunity to use my degrees for 9 years to some extent, something for which I am still appreciative. I truthfully consider my Mus.Ed. degree and M.S. in Ed. something of a serious waste of my parents and others money in many aspects, and feel pretty bad about it. I am well trained to educate, I feel when I have been given opportunities I do a fine job, but really, it's more about who you know and whose hinder was kissed or who is cheaper or viewed as more politically correct for the situation in many cases. In theory, my degrees should have value in the real world, and they quite frankly, do not. Dauphin County prison didn't even think they were worth anything for Adult Ed in their prison system, even though I had worked as a volunteer at Camp Hill State Prison for a time and my Master's is in Educational Strategies- something you'd think might be important in educating a troubled adult who doesn't want to go back into prison when he gets out, but I guess that's just me thinking that way. Even though people who teach there had more experience in elementary ed.... Even went and applied to work as the Training Supervisor in the Steel Mill Dad was at and I had even worked at as an hourly, even after experience on the UPS Safety commitee, not even an interview. The person they hired was a disaster. Dad was miffed. Even though Music educators (the competent ones) have to have knowledge of history, art, science, math, etc... it has no bearing on the real world according to HR people. So-- yes, I know there are rather hard feelings and why-- just the chance I was given to prove I could actually work with a solid program and enable it to succeed, and do things and be an important part of it as a professional educator meant a lot to me and still does. I'm that person that gets overlooked, left out, pretty much underrated. It is what it is, and at least I had that chance at one time, even limited as it was. I have to get back to work- and yes, I do feel there are some Band Directors out there that should have my job- and vice versa. And we know who many of them are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Ben it's all about the big picture...that's why as a judge, I kinda go off on drum staffs only looking at their sheet. Doing GE music has allowed me to be more forceful, in a polite way about that. I too have worked of some of those mentioned, and Dane I can never ever say enough about. but it's always about the total package Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Ben it's all about the big picture...that's why as a judge, I kinda go off on drum staffs only looking at their sheet. Doing GE music has allowed me to be more forceful, in a polite way about that. I too have worked of some of those mentioned, and Dane I can never ever say enough about. but it's always about the total package Jeff...exactly! It's ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY out there, and some of the directors that don't have that in their mind are the ones that fail miserably! One of the things we encountered at Carlisle when we first got there was this division between the band, the drum line and the guard. Dave made sure that everyone knew it was ONE BAND, and included EVERYONE in EVERYTHING! One of the coolest things Dane did was when I was in the band room working with the pit on some music. He was in his office re-doing some drill on his computer, I forget the tune, but we just put everything together, and it sounded pretty darn good...he came RUNNING out into the band room and was like "OH MY GOD THAT'S GREAT DO IT AGAIN!" so we did, then he said "wait here!" The next thing you know he pulled the rest of the band and guard into the band room and said "do it again" so we played through the parts, they applauded and he said to the whole band "Isn't that cool!!" Then sent them back out. he did that whenever a particular unit did something he liked, he wanted the rest of the band to notice also! Good ethic! W-- The sad part is that the activity NEEDS more guys like you that love the "sport" as opposed to the people that have the "well maybe I'll be a band director...I liked band!" attitudes...I remember every year Middletown had a student teacher helping out at some point during the year, some were cool, and you could tell that if they were to end up as a band director, they'd do well...others were going through the motions...my guess is that the ones going through the motions probably interviewed better...one thing I learned from my vet a few years back was after his partner went into her own "practice" and he was interviewing for a new partner, he said that he talked to the person for a while and said "if you want this job, you need to live with me for a month, and live this job" His attitude was you may interview like a pro, got great grades in veterinary school, and know how to say the right things at the right time...but can you handle this job! He said he'd rather have someone that didn't interview great, and got just passing grades, but LOVED the job and knew how to DO the job as opposed to someone that got great grades, interviewed well and was doing it because they could. He said that when HE was in school, he knew people that loved the job, but didn't get all "A's" and blew interviews because of whatever reason, maybe they just weren't a good interview-ee, that SHOULD have gotten any job they applied for...That's what's wrong with the job market today..too many people with good grades, but no common sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 some of what you see with student teachers is...nerves. they arent going to be a band director, they are going to do say general music, but the student teaching requirements make them do HS band anyway.But because they are out of their comfort zone, or have no intentions of being a band director, it can come off as doing little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Realistically, if you go into Music Education, you need to have the skills and knowledge to be able to run choir, band, orchestra, and teach general music from K-12. I have done all of it. Some things, better than others, but you have to have the depth of knowledge and skills to do it. I worked my CAN off at WCU to fill the gaps in vocal, woodwinds, and strings to get that degree. I also found out from a fellow NJA person who's a WCU grad- Ream knows him for sure- indoor person- that they wipe out 80 to 90 percent of the people, I'm a survivor, like it did any good, and I have told WCU this. I've discussed some of the issues with this with a school admin in Frederick County, MD who Ream and I judge with off and on. Maryland schools tend to have a stock set of questions they ask every teacher. It;s their game and the way they play it. I asked him Why, for a band directors job, the questions are geared towards teaching English, Math, History, but NOT towards finding a competent Band Director, but more of a good classroom General Music teacher!?!?!?! He thought about it, and he told me he hadn't thought about that before, but I definitely had a HUGE point. In many cases down there, they end up with what Jeff describes, Mr. or Ms. Bland student teacher, who might be a great General Music person, but is clueless about running a band rehearsal, wind band literature, or putting together a decent field program. It's why it's hit or miss in MD in many cases with their bands. Sometimes they actually find a great person. More often, someone who takes the job, then tries to get out within their large county wide district systems to a general music gig and then creates a revolving door for that program where they never get an experienced and capable individual at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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