How do you feel now about the G7 proposal.

[garfield]

Uh, no. It is not the only recourse to slap the kids in the face. That is the worst justification I've heard for expressing contempt for an idea. The kids are not fodder for anger from any side. That is absolutely pathetic and I would tell that to you to your face.

The kids on the field are the most precious entity we have in our activity. They are to be cherished and applauded. They are not conduits for irate messages to their staff or management.

I feel ashamed for you if that is truly how you feel and if that is what you are planning to do and encourage others to do as well.

Mike, ya' know I agree with you, 100%, and the poster should be chastised. I'm reminded of "Don't take the sins of the father out on the child." Sage advice.

That said, I recall George making comments last year that the kids, paraphrasing, "...hearing the roar of the crowd..." might be better than staging a technically brilliant show that no-one can understand.

Wouldn't you agree that the "golf clap" attributed Cadets in past years got the attention of the directors? And by extension, then, a boo is equally a message to the directors?

If they field a show that few are impressed with wouldn't you say that a golf clap is as reflective as a boo?

I'm just wondering if the kids feel as bad with crickets after a show as they would with a boo. At least a boo is definitive.

[/devil's advocate]

[Michael Boo]

Mike, ya' know I agree with you, 100%, and the poster should be chastised. I'm reminded of "Don't take the sins of the father out on the child." Sage advice.

That said, I recall George making comments last year that the kids, paraphrasing, "...hearing the roar of the crowd..." might be better than staging a technically brilliant show that no-one can understand.

Wouldn't you agree that the "golf clap" attributed Cadets in past years got the attention of the directors? And by extension, then, a boo is equally a message to the directors?

If they field a show that few are impressed with wouldn't you say that a golf clap is as reflective as a boo?

I'm just wondering if the kids feel as bad with crickets after a show as they would with a boo. At least a boo is definitive.

[/devil's advocate]

I suggest those who can't bring themselves to cheer one iota for a corps (as a reflection of an organization) at least give kudos to the kids for getting off the bus.

"I'm sunburned, I've broken a toenail, I've twisted my ankle, a spinning flag knocked me on the head, I've got muscle spasms, I'm dehydrated and I couldn't sleep last night because of the cockroaches crawling into my bedding in a boiling hot gymnasium with no ventilation. Oh, well, time to go out on the field and get booed."

[Stu]

Uh, no. It is not the only recourse to slap the kids in the face. That is the worst justification I've heard for expressing contempt for an idea. The kids are not fodder for anger from any side. That is absolutely pathetic and I would tell that to you to your face.

The kids on the field are the most precious entity we have in our activity. They are to be cherished and applauded. They are not conduits for irate messages to their staff or management.

I feel ashamed for you if that is truly how you feel and if that is what you are planning to do and encourage others to do as well.

I did not say that I was going to boo; nor am I advocating such disrespect. However, the kids are being used as conduits for philosophical messages to the audience "by Hopkins"; there is no denying that situation. Hopkins chooses to speak his philosophy "through" his kids when he puts on shows like Alice on Drugs in an Outhouse, so he bears a lot of the responsibility when many people in the audience snarl their objections at the shows. The main audience members do not engage in DCP chatter, nor do they surf religiously through the corps websites. They pay big bucks to get see great drum corps entertainment, and when they get slapped in the face with something that is obviously a director's philosophical statement, an immediate reaction is bound to happen. The kids are unfortunately pawns in the situation, and it is the fault of leadership like Hopkins, not the audience, because "he" is the one using the kids a conduits. So, I will cheer loudly this year for the non-G7 and the Open Class, I will purchase some of their souvenirs; but I also will choose to boycott watching any of the G7, nor will I purchase any of their souvenirs, until their director's back off from their elitism. If you are still ashamed, take it up with Hopkins, he is the one "using" the kids like someone in a war hiding behind civilians.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Stu

[Gary Matczak]

I did not say that I was going to boo; nor am I advocating such disrespect. However, the kids are being used as conduits for philosophical messages to the audience "by Hopkins"; there is no denying that situation. Hopkins chooses to speak his philosophy "through" his kids when he puts on shows like Alice on Drugs in an Outhouse, so he bears a lot of the responsibility when many people in the audience snarl their objections at the shows. The main audience members do not engage in DCP chatter, nor do they surf religiously through the corps websites. They pay big bucks to get see great drum corps entertainment, and when they get slapped in the face with something that is obviously a director's philosophical statement, an immediate reaction is bound to happen. The kids are unfortunately pawns in the situation, and it is the fault of leadership like Hopkins, not the audience, because "he" is the one using the kids a conduits. So, I will cheer loudly this year for the non-G7 and the Open Class, I will purchase some of their souvenirs; but I also will choose to boycott watching any of the G7, nor will I purchase any of their souvenirs, until their director's back off from their elitism. If you are still ashamed, take it up with Hopkins, he is the one "using" the kids like someone in a war hiding behind civilians.

we have some of the gang of 7 coming to Erie this summer,..............................no booing from me and others I hope,................but I bet we sell a lot of hotdogs tho,.....................maybe we'll even give 'em away for free during them,...................

[Michael Boo]

I did not say that I was going to boo; nor am I advocating such disrespect. However, the kids are being used as conduits for philosophical messages to the audience "by Hopkins"; there is no denying that situation. Hopkins chooses to speak his philosophy "through" his kids when he puts on shows like Alice on Drugs in an Outhouse, so he bears a lot of the responsibility when many people in the audience snarl their objections at the shows. The main audience members do not engage in DCP chatter, nor do they surf religiously through the corps websites. They pay big bucks to get see great drum corps entertainment, and when they get slapped in the face with something that is obviously a director's philosophical statement, an immediate reaction is bound to happen. The kids are unfortunately pawns in the situation, and it is the fault of leadership like Hopkins, not the audience, because "he" is the one using the kids a conduits. So, I will cheer loudly this year for the non-G7 and the Open Class, I will purchase some of their souvenirs; but I also will choose to boycott watching any of the G7, nor will I purchase any of their souvenirs, until their director's back off from their elitism. If you are still ashamed, take it up with Hopkins, he is the one "using" the kids like someone in a war hiding behind civilians.

Well, that reads different than " there is really no other recourse for the audience than to speak back to those directors "through" their performers." And stating "the directors are the ones putting the youth out there to get boycotted and booed" and mentioning "when the kids are caught in the middle" doesn't sound like you're not advocating respect for the kids...the performers. And, really now, whether one agrees or disagrees with George Hopkins, this is not a "war."

[Stu]

And, really now, whether one agrees or disagrees with George Hopkins, this is not a "war."

So, you do not think that the G7 are creating a combative situation when they want to relegate all other World Class corps to a grouping beneath them, they want Teal Sound and Mandarins to compete in a slot below what they have rightfully earned, and they want to completely eliminate all support from Open Class corps’? And you are also saying that it is uncouth for us to point out the fact that they are by definition choosing to hide behind their own youth performers in this combative situation knowing full well that it is rude for us to boo kids? To me, that certainly seems like a war brought on by the G7. edit: and the casualties are the youth performers.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Stu

[Jeff Ream]

I still think that pales in comparison to the entire 91-93 seasons. However, though these things do happen, they're still rather rare given how long the activity has been around.

not 91. but 07 was ugly. except that was aimed at one man

[Jeff Ream]

I suggest those who can't bring themselves to cheer one iota for a corps (as a reflection of an organization) at least give kudos to the kids for getting off the bus.

"I'm sunburned, I've broken a toenail, I've twisted my ankle, a spinning flag knocked me on the head, I've got muscle spasms, I'm dehydrated and I couldn't sleep last night because of the cockroaches crawling into my bedding in a boiling hot gymnasium with no ventilation. Oh, well, time to go out on the field and get booed."

thats why i'll golf clap

[Michael Boo]

So, you do not think that the G7 are creating a combative situation when they want to relegate all other World Class corps to a grouping beneath them, they want Teal Sound and Mandarins to compete in a slot below what they have rightfully earned, and they want to completely eliminate all support from Open Class corps’? And you are also saying that it is uncouth for us to point out the fact that they are by definition choosing to hide behind their own youth performers in this combative situation knowing full well that it is rude for us to boo kids? To me, that certainly seems like a war brought on by the G7.

No, I'm not saying it's at all uncouth for you or anyone else to express your opinion on any matter. I'm saying it's only a "combative situation" in a stadium if you and others choose to make it into one.

What is it with all the war imagery?

[Stu]

No, I'm not saying it's at all uncouth for you or anyone else to express your opinion on any matter. I'm saying it's only a "combative situation" in a stadium if you and others choose to make it into one.

What is it with all the war imagery?

Avoiding conflict is not the same as peace; if it was, all those who are oppressed while avoiding the underlying issues would be "at peace" with the oppressors. And the directors of the G7 are attempting to oppress the other corps', especially the Open Class, in their proposal. I also find the choice of imagery here incongruous in that giving peace a chance did not even work for the very person who sang the song; it really worked for the Beatles now didn’t it? Try sending these same images to all of the youth and all of the directors of the Open Class corps’ that will be hurt or destroyed by the G7 proposal if it goes through. Sometimes a person, or a group, has to rise up and fight the conflict (ie this conflict situation created by the directors of the G7) to end up with a true sense of peace.