Just noticed this in the G7 Proposal

[84skyrydr]

Bugles are no longer Bugles; they changed the day they went from no valves to having valves and actually changed into "band" instruments once they became Bb three valve; Drum Corps traditionally had no mallet instruments and changed in the 1939 from no mallets to adding "band" marching bells then to "band" grounded mallet instruments in the 1980's; Drum Corps have all but eliminated traditional color guards and replaced them with "band" dancing lines and multiple props; Sling Drums to Carriers; One Tom to multi-tenors. So, to make DCI a pure Drum Corps again, and not resemble a "Band" in any fashion, we need to go back all the way to the 1938 definition; because 2010 is a whole new game compared to pure 1938 drum corps.

Its all in the eye and the ear of the beholder. Drum Corps to me started when DCI became DCI. To me bugle refers to brass instruments and percussion is percussion is still percussion. BUT, an oboe is not now nor ever will it be made out of brass. Like I said, let them go and have their cake. I will still be around and might even go see a non G7 show, even though I do not really like the shows of today with all the synth cover ups for the horns, the singing, YOWZA narration and OVER amplification of the pit. Can't any of the guys running the board really hear how overbearing they get? I would have no problem watching them implode with their new band corps. If they end up like Star in Blast, then good for them, but I won't be checking it out anytime soon. That should be ok? If DCI dies as a result, (stinks I know), then that is life. They are slowly dying every year already. Wonder why attendance figures aren't released? My final point is my main point all along. Let them go, goodbye.......

[Stu]

Its all in the eye and the ear of the beholder. Drum Corps to me started when DCI became DCI.

True: it is all in the eye of the beholder; and Drum Corps started for this person when the VFW was around, and it started for that person when electronoics was introduced.

To me bugle refers to brass instruments...

Since you defined Brass as the bugle, you would then also consider Sousaphones, Concert F French Horns, and Trombones (all Brass instruments) as acceptable.

BUT, an oboe is not now nor ever will it be made out of brass.

BUT, a saxaphone "is" made of "Brass". Like you said, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

[SCV Biker]

At the rate is SCV is going competitively in 2010, they won't have to worry about all this G7 stuff.

[84skyrydr]

True: it is all in the eye of the beholder; and Drum Corps started for this person when the VFW was around, and it started for that person when electronoics was introduced.

Since you defined Brass as the bugle, you would then also consider Sousaphones, Concert F French Horns, and Trombones (all Brass instruments) as acceptable.

BUT, a saxaphone "is" made of "Brass". Like you said, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Correct on all accounts.

[Stu]

Correct on all accounts.

You said correct to Sousaphones, Concert F French Horns, and Trombones as being acceptable. Those instruments would therefore make it by definition a "Brass Band" like they have in Great Britan and not a traditional “Drum Corps”. So, you are in favor of DC being a Marching Band; albiet a Brass Band, but a Band nonetheless, and morphing away from being a true Drum Corps.

[Benchmark]

Hey 84Sky: Most of us here on DCP enjoy the Troopers and the Colts as much as the Blue Devils and the Cadets. Nevertheless, we are not talking one group, like Star, leaving to form Blast. We are talking about seven stalwart corps leaving to form their own organizational system. What if the United States, Russia, France, Germany, England, China, and Japan decided to leave the Olympics? What if Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, United States, and England decided to leave the World Cup Soccer? What if the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Cubs, Dodgers, Braves, and Giants decided to leave the MLB? What if the Cowboys, Patriots, Steelers, Giants, Broncos, Saints, and Bears decided to leave the NFL? And they decided to form their own respective organizational bodies?

In my opinion, the Olympics, World Cup, MLB, and NFL would possibly survive; because many good countries and many good teams would still compete in those activities. But I also contend that most of the fan base would follow the stalwart teams into their respective new organizational systems. And if the G7 split off from DCI, and the competitive nature of their shows are kept in tact with a similar judging system, DCI might survive because it will still have great groups like Boston, Scouts, Blue Stars, Troopers, et al. But I also believe the majority of the fan base will follow the G7. Why? Because whether we like it or not, the Blue Devils are like what the Yankees are to Baseball; The Cadets are like what Brazil is to the World Cup; Crown, The Cavaliers, SCV, Regiment, and Bluecoats do stand as stalwart teams like the Patriots, Red Sox, and Bears. With the exception of the Scouts, all of the past DCI champions from 1973 - 2009 are in the G7; and the fans will more than likely follow those champions; at least in the short term. While I do not agree with the arrogance of calling themselves "The Act", which impies they are the only ones who have meaning; I do believe that they are the "main" act due to the competative nature of the activity and their combined championship rings. If the G7 decide to split and becomes a novilty, the fans will gravitate back to DCI; if the G7 decide to split and becomes a main stay, DCI will lose the luster it now holds and it will take many years to build the stature up for any new stalwart corps to develop in DCI.

What this all boils down to is money. If the G7 have the money to split and form their own entity, and they do not get their way in DCI, they will split; if they do not have enough capital to form a new organizational body, they will seek compromises and stay in DCI. But either way, although they might not have the voting power to sway the other corps, they currently do have the largest money power base, fan base power base, and championship ring power which can and will sway the DCI ticket sales.

Hey thats a good idea on the NFL teams! lol

[WindsorGman]

I hate to be the "I told you" guy.when I first heard about the "winds" rumor a while ago(this has been discussed for some time) I could see rocky road for DCI. now some time later we are again hearing about winds, and the guitar and synth did happen. If the G7 do break away, Hoppy can talk them into the winds part and they could become a member of BOA. This is an excerpt of some thing I posted from 1yr ago.

Posted on: Jul 18 2009, 11:08 AM

"Conspiricy theroy, the economy hits DCI hard and it is overwhelmed by stadium costs and low revenues and is absorbed by BOA, same city a coincidence? then all of these "thats not drum corps" disussions end and you can march anything you like."

Low revenues could be DCI after the split.

[84skyrydr]

You said correct to Sousaphones, Concert F French Horns, and Trombones as being acceptable. Those instruments would therefore make it by definition a "Brass Band" like they have in Great Britan and not a traditional “Drum Corps”. So, you are in favor of DC being a Marching Band; albiet a Brass Band, but a Band nonetheless, and morphing away from being a true Drum Corps.

Yep. I have no problem with the brass instrumentation. I do have a problem with cheesy clarinets et al, amplification of ANY instrument, voices and like you yourself said. True drum corps hasn't existed since 1939. Right?

Edited July 8, 2010 by 84skyrydr

[Stu]

Yep. I have no problem with the brass instrumentation. I do have a problem with cheesy clarinets et al, amplification of ANY instrument, voices and like you yourself said. True drum corps hasn't existed since 1939. Right?

Got it; the definition of Drum Corps is dependent on the individual interpretation and therefore always relative to the eye of the beholder. To you a Drum Corps can morph into a Brass Band with Sousaphones and Trombones; to a VFW person it should go back to G Rotors with no Grounded Pit; and to another person it can morph into Woodwinds, and Electronics. So, I completely understand why you would keep attending DCI events with the addition of Sousaphones, but would stop attending DCI events with the addition of Saxophones. However, I now have a question: If Drum Corps actually is "in the eye of the beholder", why is there so much DCP bashing and ripping apart of those who desire Woodwinds? Where is the respect for "the eye of the beholder"?

[audiodb]

I only wanted to use seven teams. Ok switch the Philies and the Cubs. My point still stands; if the seven stalwart teams left MLB that would be devistating; if the seven stalwart teams left NFL that would be devistating; if the seven stalwart countries left the Olympics that would be devistating; if the seven stalwart countries left the World Cup that would be devistating; and if the seven stalwart crops left DCI that would be devistating.

That's what I disagree with. Life goes on. The NFL would be fine with the remaining 25 teams. The Olympics have gone on with various nations boycotting or banned. Likewise, DCI will be fully viable with the other 39 corps if the G7 leave (provided they don't bankrupt themselves by paying the G7 ransom to get them to stay one more year).