Open Class Predictions

[ussglassman]

My guess is that they would challenge for Semi's...

There is no such thing as Division 3 anymore. There is WC and Open Class.

BDB and SCVC work their backsides off to get where they are at (not to say other corps don't, because they do) but I've been

to their rehearsals and its crazy how hard and efficiently they work.

All I know is that I get to watch 21 Corps perform live on the Fan Network today...and I can't wait.

Cali.

I would never doubt a corps work ethic. Also, I thoroughly enjoyed both of their shows this year. But, its obvious that SCVC and BDB are larger and quite a higher caliber than any of the corps in their division, and therefore, should not be competing against them. I feel the Open Class would be much more meaningful of corps could actually compete for a championship, rather than just handing it to a corps that is too big and too good to be in that division.

[Calistar]

I would never doubt a corps work ethic. Also, I thoroughly enjoyed both of their shows this year. But, its obvious that SCVC and BDB are larger and quite a higher caliber than any of the corps in their division, and therefore, should not be competing against them. I feel the Open Class would be much more meaningful of corps could actually compete for a championship, rather than just handing it to a corps that is too big and too good to be in that division.

Hmmm...here's the problem with your statement. Well, actually there's a couple of problems (the first being the "just handing" the championship to a corps...it is never just handed, it is earned)....the second issue is that it sounds like you would prefer a system that requires corps that get "too big" or "too good" to move up to World Class (don't mean to put words in your mouth, its just what it sounds like to me)...anyway, say you moved BDB and SCV up to World Class...then OC and Spartans are the top dogs....then say, Forte, says "hey how can we compete with corps that are that big and that good???

see, its a never ending cycle...

Cali.

[blue4ever]

Hmmm...here's the problem with your statement. Well, actually there's a couple of problems (the first being the "just handing" the championship to a corps...it is never just handed, it is earned)....the second issue is that it sounds like you would prefer a system that requires corps that get "too big" or "too good" to move up to World Class (don't mean to put words in your mouth, its just what it sounds like to me)...anyway, say you moved BDB and SCV up to World Class...then OC and Spartans are the top dogs....then say, Forte, says "hey how can we compete with corps that are that big and that good???

see, its a never ending cycle...

Cali.

The issue for BDB is, do they want to finish 1st each year or fall to the low middle area of World Class. I think they are ready to try World Class. I'm not sure they're pushing as hard this year since there really is not much competition at Indy Finals...and last year they were pushing like crazy for their first championship. SCVC is not going to Indy this year, Teal Sound moved up, Citations dropped out (the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place corps last year. BDB would have ranked about 14th place in world class last year - their show design was fantastic, better than this year's, by the way. They would very probably beat Teal Sound and Jersey Surf, so place them at least around 18 or so this year world class. I think they're going to need the move to world class to stay motivated and hungry in coming years...their goal would be to make the final 12, like Troopers last year.

[txorchdork013]

I would never doubt a corps work ethic. Also, I thoroughly enjoyed both of their shows this year. But, its obvious that SCVC and BDB are larger and quite a higher caliber than any of the corps in their division, and therefore, should not be competing against them. I feel the Open Class would be much more meaningful of corps could actually compete for a championship, rather than just handing it to a corps that is too big and too good to be in that division.

I really thought I was going to sit this conversation out, but....

Do you really believe that BDB and SCVC should be excluded because their respective programs have managed to experience some degree of success leading to larger numbers (I won't address caliber of performance because that is determined by quality of musicianship not size of organization)?

Size and quality are two things that an organization can manipulate to some degree. Let me remind you both those corps did not start off large and loud. Their respective organizations worked on recruitment, bringing in those numbers and on the quality of musical education within the corps. Being privileged enough to watch the staff work with BDB for the last three years, I can state for a fact that they work those kids as if they were competing in the WC. They don't take shortcuts and they don't accept mediocrity. Even the staff that works with BDC instill the same sense of musicianship with those little ones that they do with the bigger kids, just age appropriate. And contrary to your belief, both BDB and SCVC "actually compete" for their championships. Just a reminder, in 2007, BDB broke the top 5 for the first time with a fourth place finish, SCVC came in fifth and the top three corps were Spartans, Jersey Surf and Teal Sound. So, BDB and SCVC has had to work their way up also. The reality of it is that when it comes to recruiting better quality musicians, the more successful a the program becomes, the more willing kids are to audition and play with that group. So suggesting that a group be penalized for finding their success is really outrageous.

Edited July 19, 2010 by txorchdork013

[Madrid]

I really thought I was going to sit this conversation out, but....

Do you really believe that BDB and SCVC should be excluded because their respective programs have managed to experience some degree of success leading to larger numbers (I won't address caliber of performance because that is determined by quality of musicianship not size of organization)?

Size and quality are two things that an organization can manipulate to some degree. Let me remind you both those corps did not start off large and loud. Their respective organizations worked on recruitment, bringing in those numbers and on the quality of musical education within the corps. Being privileged enough to watch the staff work with BDB for the last three years, I can state for a fact that they work those kids as if they were competing in the WC. They don't take shortcuts and they don't accept mediocrity. Even the staff that works with BDC instill the same sense of musicianship with those little ones that they do with the bigger kids, just age appropriate. And contrary to your belief, both BDB and SCVC "actually compete" for their championships. Just a reminder, in 2007, BDB broke the top 5 for the first time with a fourth place finish, SCVC came in fifth and the top three corps were Spartans, Jersey Surf and Teal Sound. So, BDB and SCVC has had to work their way up also. The reality of it is that when it comes to recruiting better quality musicians, the more successful a the program becomes, the more willing kids are to audition and play with that group. So suggesting that a group be penalized for finding their success is really outrageous.

I don't think anyone is calling out BDB or SCVC for sandbagging Open Class. At least, I hope they're not. If that were the case, the same thing could have been said about Spartans and numerous other corps throughout the history of Open Class/Div 2&3.

For me, and I compare this to WGI, the issue of BDB and SCVC being in Open or World should only be brought up when it appears that both the design AND members have reached a World Class level. This is, of course, in terms of skill sets being asked of the membership by the design team and the execution of those skill sets by the majority of the membership.

At the same time, if we're going to talk about corps that "should/could" compete in the World Class, why then aren't we talking about corps that should take the "step down" and be more competitive in the Open Class?

Of course, as I understand it, the qualifications for being in World or Open are not based off of design or membership talent so much as it is based upon financial stability.

That then brings up the question: "Can SCV and BD actually afford to operate TWO touring World Class corps?"

[Mello9406]

So back to the topic at hand??? Open class predictions? There was alot of open class corps that performed this weekend.. Thoughts anyone?

[Madrid]

So back to the topic at hand??? Open class predictions? There was alot of open class corps that performed this weekend.. Thoughts anyone?

There sure has been a lot of Open Class action as of late. What I find interesting is that BDB and SCVC are just about 10 points above everybody else.

I'm still sticking to my original predictions.

[EDA16]

So this may have already been answered........ but why isn't SCVC going to Indy?

[Madrid]

So this may have already been answered........ but why isn't SCVC going to Indy?

They go every other year from what I understand.

[kinigit]

I love how threads on DCP start as one thing, and end as another.

Anyway, go Raiders!