dbc03 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 You can't mix up the entire line up, big corps, little corps, big corps etc because it would force the judges to actually judge on the performance rather than just increasing their score for each corps as the night goes on. This is a pretty ridiculous statement. Here is just one example of why: Sioux Falls Performance order: The Cavaliers The Cadets Blue Devils Blue Knights Glassmen Troopers Colts Sioux Falls Placements: 1 Blue Devils 88.650 2 The Cadets 86.900 3 The Cavaliers 86.250 4 Blue Knights 82.500 5 Glassmen 79.750 6 Colts 75.350 7 Troopers 75.050 There wasn't a single caption that was just in performance order either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 The real problem would be the judging inconsistency created by a judge having to compare corps going on hours apart from each other. We all know its an advantage score wise to go on later. It shouldn't be an advantage of any kind. That's why the back of the judges sheets has all that black stuff on it. Drum Corps judges are also Drum Corps Fans. I'm sure they can remember what corps X got at 8pm compared to what they gave corps Y at 10pm. Either way, the sheet criteria based on their performance should be the true score. Maybe mixing it up would show some TRUE reads and TRUE scores rather than +.1 per corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 At SOME shows, you might see the crowd leave early... a smart scheduler would mix them in, not just reverse the order. Also, other shows not in the northeast tend to react a bit differently (i did not notice people leaving the crowd for the Colts in Des Moines this week, yes, theyre an iowa corps, but also 4 hours from des moines). Which is more demeaning to the lower placing corps, performing in front of half full stands or being snuck in like someone hiding grandpa's pills in his mashed potatoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 It shouldn't be an advantage of any kind. That's why the back of the judges sheets has all that black stuff on it. Drum Corps judges are also Drum Corps Fans. I'm sure they can remember what corps X got at 8pm compared to what they gave corps Y at 10pm. Either way, the sheet criteria based on their performance should be the true score. Maybe mixing it up would show some TRUE reads and TRUE scores rather than +.1 per corps. good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 My thought behind this was just not trying to convince fans that these corps are worth seeing. My thought is that if one person sees them that didn't before and enjoys the show thats one more fan. Since no one stays for the scores (everyone would leave after the big boys-quoted from several posters) mix the corps up, alternate between top 12 and lower corps with the top 12 corps going first and last. Also Maybe DCI can give handouts with info on each corps at the show. How much would copies cost by the thousnad? If someone seen say Cadets and wanted to march but knew they might not be good enough but now knows Surf, Raiders, et al were within driving distance they may try out. I'm sure if more people knew abnout the smaller corps the activity would definitely grow. I'm looking for solutions...not just complaining...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyboo Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 This is a pretty ridiculous statement. Here is just one example of why:Sioux Falls Performance order: The Cavaliers The Cadets Blue Devils Blue Knights Glassmen Troopers Colts Sioux Falls Placements: 1 Blue Devils 88.650 2 The Cadets 86.900 3 The Cavaliers 86.250 4 Blue Knights 82.500 5 Glassmen 79.750 6 Colts 75.350 7 Troopers 75.050 There wasn't a single caption that was just in performance order either That was with all WC corps. I wonder what the outcome would have been if the order of performance was: 1. Blue Devils 2. Legends 3. Glassmen 4. Colt Cadets 5. Cadets 6. Troopers 7. Forte DCI tried this back in 1/4 finals back in '89. They only did it for one year for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I have to say that presenting the corps in order roughly by increasing quality makes the show much more enjoyable for the casual or novice audience member. As someone else pointed out, if The Cadets are followed by Teal Sound, then everyone is going to enjoy Teal less than they otherwise might. Folks who go to hundreds of shows might not experience this issue, but non-expert audiences are going to leave unimpressed with the lower-scoring corps or even feeling negative about them, whereas if you start with the lower-level corps and move up, the audience can be impressed over and over by each and every corps. I think that's better for the corps and better for the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) That was with all WC corps. I wonder what the outcome would have been if the order of performance was:1. Blue Devils 2. Legends 3. Glassmen 4. Colt Cadets 5. Cadets 6. Troopers 7. Forte DCI tried this back in 1/4 finals back in '89. They only did it for one year for a reason. yeah because it is a terrible idea. I love cheesecake, I love my Meat and potatoes, I like garlic bread and I like a nice plate of potato skins. I wouldnt want to sit at the table, eat my dessert, then my main course, then finish with the appetizer. I love the "small" corps" as much as my contenders and I sincerely get the same enjoyment out of each....but I dont want to see "legends" go on after Phantom Regiment...it breaks the suspense and the layout of the show and spoils the anticipation... It was terrible watching Railmen after SCV in 1989...and Watching Spirit and Cadets go on relatively first was just silly......the corps compete based on relative placement in the ranks..this isnt "up with people" its supposed to be a cometitive youth activity....what lessons are taught to the kids if PC takes over every darned aspect of it ?? theres too much emphasis placed on things that really dont matter.......you wanna go on last ?? EARN it.....competitively, not enjoyment-wise. G Edited July 21, 2010 by GMichael1230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I have to say that presenting the corps in order roughly by increasing quality makes the show much more enjoyable for the casual or novice audience member. As someone else pointed out, if The Cadets are followed by Teal Sound, then everyone is going to enjoy Teal less than they otherwise might. Folks who go to hundreds of shows might not experience this issue, but non-expert audiences are going to leave unimpressed with the lower-scoring corps or even feeling negative about them, whereas if you start with the lower-level corps and move up, the audience can be impressed over and over by each and every corps. I think that's better for the corps and better for the audience. Bingo !! And welcome to DCP.... G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hill Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) A genuine conundrum for everyone, this is: made even more difficult by time considerations. Who, other than the stalwart fan -- the ones of us posting here -- will choose to sit through a six-hour competition? The part of the G7 (sorry) proposal that has value is in the conjecture that shows/contests on weeknights should be contained within two hours. For the new, or novice, spectator. Is the first hour regional corps, followed by the nationally-touring units? Luck of the draw? No easy answer here, because there is no way to prescribe audience attention. ALTHOUGH ... it might help if us devoted fans were in the stands early, and talked up the value of the smaller/regional/local corps and their place in the larger activity. Edited July 21, 2010 by David Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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