Change the show schedules

[skywhopper]

I disagree. It does not make it any more enjoyable for me. Is a casual or novice audience member the target market anyway? I think we all underestimate the audience intelligence. Especially when I talk to people around me I realize that these are not novices or casual audience members sitting next to me by a long shot.

Your point is well taken. At least in the higher-priced sections, most of the audience seem to be serious fans. And I agree with you in theory that the lower-tier corps could use more exposure and deserve more respect. I still think shuffling the order would do them more of a disservice.

I guess I can only speak for myself. My memory of the first DCI show I attended when I was maybe 13 is how impressed I was at every single corps. I would see a performance and think "That is the greatest marching performance I have ever witnessed!" And then the next one would be EVEN BETTER. I couldn't believe that this level of performance was actually possible, and then 15 minutes later it would be topped again. I was hooked. Did it matter what order they were in? I think the lower-level corps wouldn't have been impressive once I'd seen what the top level corps could do.

And sure, that was the first DCI show I'd ever seen, but I find I still get a little bit of that feeling even now, moreso the longer it's been since the last show I saw. I love Madison's show this year, but I don't think I would like it nearly as well if I'd seen it right *after* the high polish of Crown or Cavaliers or Cadets.

[jwscv87]

I dont really need to know anything about your background but if you were one of those kids in the lot, then you were also one of this kids on the field....and you realize how different it feels to perform in front of an audience rather than do a run through of your show for 10-15 staff members.

But either way thats not even the biggest thing that bothers me. The fact that someone would rather mosey around, looking at cds and t-shirts rather than support a kid who has spent a lot of money and effort to be part of this activity and keep it going....thats what "perplexes me".

You admit that you could care less about the majority of DCI and you only want to see the best corps. That attitude is part of the reason what keeps parity (both competitively and financially) out of DCI.

No, I will spend 15 minutes looking at souvies and a lot of time watching several corps rehearse in the lot. You presume much. I don't think you have a clue what keeps parity out of DCI. It certainly is not what you suggest.

I pay the same $ for my ticket that you do. You clearly assume that while I am in the lot I care only to watch the premiere corps (you would be wrong). Most years I help with some sponsor money for a couple of kids and I choose a kid in a small local corps and usually one in SCV. Your first reply implied that I am so giddy to see my favorite corps that the reason I am in the lot is that I must have some odd fascination with a corps. Again, you would be wrong. I spent seven years in drum corps (you?) and I enjoy the preshow world for a lot of reasons you clearly would not get. I watch hornlines, I watch drumlines, I talk to other fans, other FMMs and have a good time. I get one or two chances to view a drum corps show and I do what I enjoy.

You so dramatically overstate the "problem" of less butts in the stand that it is ridiculous.

<---back at you.

[MikeN]

In my mind it comes down to whether the show you're attending (and paying a small fortune for) is a contest or a "show." If it's a contest, then the lineup is the way it should be - top seed goes last. There's no shortage of sports in which this occurs, especially ones built for TV audiences.

If, however, it's a show, an entertainment product, then the lineup makes no sense. Allow me a music analogy - just because Adam Lambert sold more albums than Metallica last year Just because Susan Boyle sold more albums in 2009 than Nickelback, you're not going to make her the final act of the evening. If anything, once you reach the "prime time" portion of the show (however you, the G7 or whoever defines it), you'd be better served by having a powerhouse group go on *first.*

Anyways, just my 0.02.

Mike

[dbc03]

In my mind it comes down to whether the show you're attending (and paying a small fortune for) is a contest or a "show." If it's a contest, then the lineup is the way it should be - top seed goes last. There's no shortage of sports in which this occurs, especially ones built for TV audiences.

If, however, it's a show, an entertainment product, then the lineup makes no sense. Allow me a music analogy - just because Adam Lambert sold more albums than Metallica last year Just because Susan Boyle sold more albums in 2009 than Nickelback, you're not going to make her the final act of the evening. If anything, once you reach the "prime time" portion of the show (however you, the G7 or whoever defines it), you'd be better served by having a powerhouse group go on *first.*

Anyways, just my 0.02.

Mike

What are you talking about?

The top act always goes on last at concerts.

[StarGazer]

His point (which I agree with) is that just because somebody made more doesn't mean they should have the prime time spot. Would you really want to watch Adam Lambert AFTER Metallica? Probably not.

There are (sorry, but yes, I'm going here) many marching arts circuits that do not have groups seeded. Like (GASP!) marching bands. Does BOA seed groups for Grand Nats Finals? No. Does ISSMA (Indiana's circuit) seed groups? No. Does Mid-States Band Association seed groups? No. Guess what. The groups that are the best win-no matter where they're placed in a show. It causes the judges to give an honest opinion about a performance since comparing groups (next group is going to be better than the last because that's how they've been scoring all season. Judges are human. I'm sure they follow the scoring trends like we do (well, those of us that like to do that). They expect a higher quality product out of the next group in seeded show times, consciously or more than likely subconsciously.

Another thing that's occurred to me that I'm kind of surprised hasn't been posted. For the corps that go first at every show (sans home shows) have to get to the show site earlier than the "big guys". This means consistently less rehearsal time since a lot of places have noise ordinances, the corps members aren't getting up at 5:00 in the morning to have the same amount of rehearsal time as the last performing group that may go on two hours later that gets up at 7:00. Even an hour lost every day during tour adds up to a lot of lost rehearsal time that the "little guys" could have used to improve that much more. By mixing things up, you eventually give everybody a more equal amount of time to practice. That would help out the "little guys" even if there are audience members that get a hot dog while they perform.

[Perry S]

I was at the Arlington show and The Indifference was disheartning. People would just stroll in and out to just watch certain corps and you could tell with others that it wasn't "their" corps due to the texting and such. When their corps came on though the phone went away and they gave total attention. Then after that performance just get up and leave never to be seen again. I didn't see this once or twice but ALL evening. Also saw it at several shows over the last few years. No audience ettiquette and NO respect for the work of the other corps. YES ELITISM SUX!!!

[byline]

It's a bad idea.

We hear over and over on this board about the fan, how he's always right, how we must listen more to the fans. And now you're trying to argue that the fan is wrong, that his experience should be dictated by some superior drum pantheon that knows what's best for all.

I took a drum corps rookie to a show last year in Virginia in which Madison performed last. This rookie noticed the increasing levels of performance through the night and responded appropriately. But when Madison followed Cadets, he asked what happened. Abruptly, he was commenting on deficiencies rather than achievements. That was the final impression with which he left.

I too was at the Ewing show this year in which Surf followed Crusaders, Phantom, Bluecoats and Crown. Surf acquitted itself well, but the contrast was stark and unflattering. The numbers, the program, the volume were so obviously less.

If such a change ever were to be implemented formally, my suggestion would be to have the designated corp be the first after the intermission rather than last of all. That, at least, would be a less jarring switch and still leave a short-enough interval for that corps to do the encore.

As much as I wish that, in a perfect world, we could do what the OP suggests, unfortunately I believe you are absolutely right. It seems that no matter what, everyone has their "hot dog/early exit" corps. How much worse is it to see people actually getting up and leaving as you're coming on the field? Having experienced that, myself, it ain't fun.

Just as you can't legislate morality, you can't organize corps in such a way that forces everyone to have good manners. People are people, and they're going to do what they want to do. It ain't pretty, but it's the way it is. As much as I can, I try to encourage people to stay and appreciate all the corps' performances. But I also recognize that encouraging people to do that doesn't guarantee that they will do what I would do. Nor should they. Right or wrong, it's their choice.

And yup, StarGazer, the corps that go on earliest consistently have the least amount of rehearsal time the day of a show. I remember it well.

[baristeve]

The higher ranking corps should go on last because they deserve it... in real life you don't get a leg up over someone simply because "oh well you work hard too"... gimme a break

[byline]

I think it is a well intentioned idea, but I don't like it. I want to spend a bunch of time in the lot and buying souvies because I love doing so, and then go spend a bunch of time watching the best corps. While I would agree that there are generally smaller crowds in the stands for the smaller corps, I just don't see it being the big problem that folks make it out to be. I also don't see it as a slight on the kids. It is just a reality, not a problem that needs fixing.

OK, Jon, obviously you are free to do what you want to do. But the souvie stands are open well before the show starts, and they're open after. Why not buy your souvies then so that you can be in your seat to watch all the corps? Same with the lot. Can't you go to the lot before the show starts, then be in your seat for the start of the show? I guess I don't get the point of going to a drum corps show, if it isn't to see all the corps that perform. But maybe that's just me.

[dbc03]

His point (which I agree with) is that just because somebody made more doesn't mean they should have the prime time spot. Would you really want to watch Adam Lambert AFTER Metallica? Probably not.

If I were an Adam Lambert fan and not a Metallica fan? Probably.

The concert comparison is actually quite good though, because just like in drum corps there are less people there for the opening acts than for the headliners. Like it or not the top corps are the headliners in drum corps. More people want to watch the top corps. This is simply a fact and if you question it then do a head count at any show during the first corps on and then again during the last corps on. If the first corps were what most people really wanted to see then people would get there in time to see it.

That's not to say that the earlier corps aren't worthwhile, or that entertainment can't be found there, they are and it can. They just don't put as many butts in the seats as the top corps. I discovered one of my favorite singers when she was opening for another band I had gone to see. I'm sure that there are people out there that find favorite shows in the lower corps that they weren't expecting, I've found a few myself that I thought were great. It still doesn't change the fact that the top corps are what more people want to see.