Now that more people have seen them head to head

[Mello Dude]

I go back to younger players have a difficult time learning to pitch each note. This is just something a player must master and takes hours and hours of practice with a tuner...the old Yamaha tuner with the lighted dial was what I used in high school and college...thank you Mr. Ellis for letting me borrow it in the summer! Those things were very expensive back in the day. Now a decent digital tuner can be had for about $100 and EVERY brass player should have one. Period. The only way to be in tune is to practice being in tune.

I totally disagree with the "need" of a tuner and dare say this is part of the problem and not solution. Tuners are nice "tools" but to TRULY be in tune you have to listen down to whatever pitch or intonation the Tubas are giving you, knowing your place within that chord, and LISTENING. A440 isn't the be all and end all of intonation. Unfortunately I am beginning to see the "dot" approach to playing music and that needs to be stomped out post haste.

[Tom Brace]

Colts and Spirit might have something to say about that

I don't see either topping the two ahead of them anytime soon. I saw Spirit's show and it is good...just not on par with Troopers (much cleaner) and Academy (I believe the best show of the five corps being discussed).

I just see this as two horses at this point chasing a perennial finalist. The other two are behind by a couple lengths...however, we are only at the quarter pole.

[Abbevillekid26]

No one.

[Tom Brace]

I totally disagree with the "need" of a tuner and dare say this is part of the problem and not solution. Tuners are nice "tools" but to TRULY be in tune you have to listen down to whatever pitch or intonation the Tubas are giving you, knowing your place within that chord, and LISTENING. A440 isn't the be all and end all of intonation. Unfortunately I am beginning to see the "dot" approach to playing music and that needs to be stomped out post haste.

you are of course, correct. Tuners will make zero difference unless players understand relevance, blend, and really just good listening skills. But, this wasn't an across the field issue...this was a tightly gathered octet and the mello was just way out...1/4 tone probably. Maybe it was pinching...maybe it was overblowing...but it was obvious. if I'm a judge, I'm thinking, "that's a member picked for a feature, that must be an example of one of their best students."

So, fix the intonation. However you want to do it. I learned to play every note in tune. Then, I can adjust but at least I have a baseline I know for every note.

Ensemble playing is always the toughest thing...you have to almost find that tempering point within your section that works with the rest of the ensemble. It's why when a corps is playing in tune and moving all over the place, it's really such a wondrous thing...take SCV last night...just phenomenal playing and moving.

[rwmoore001]

I think the surprise at Allentown will be Troopers. They have really buckled down the last 10 days and it will start paying dividends. they are not done by any stretch of the imagination. I know they are all working hard and there is no doubt that I am a Troopers Honk so take this post with a grain of salt I guess. I just don't think the Troopers are getting credit for the difficulty of their product. When you watch their show and then watch one of the other shows next to it some of the other shows appear to be in slow motion. Their show is cleaner and cleaner every day and it remains to be seen whether they can get it clean enough to make top 12, but I completely discount some of the statements on DCP saying that the show is boring. (not in this thread so don't beat me up) If anyone finds the Troopers show boring it is because they want to find it boring. Not because it is. There is nothing boring about the product they are putting on the field. They are marching their collective _sses off at break-neck speed and playing while they are doing it. At least they aren't camping out on the field to blow or camping out for 2 weeks to practice in the middle of the season. They are touring and working their butts off sleeping on buses 5 nights a week.

[Tom Brace]

I think the surprise at Allentown will be Troopers. They have really buckled down the last 10 days and it will start paying dividends. they are not done by any stretch of the imagination. I know they are all working hard and there is no doubt that I am a Troopers Honk so take this post with a grain of salt I guess. I just don't think the Troopers are getting credit for the difficulty of their product. When you watch their show and then watch one of the other shows next to it some of the other shows appear to be in slow motion. Their show is cleaner and cleaner every day and it remains to be seen whether they can get it clean enough to make top 12, but I completely discount some of the statements on DCP saying that the show is boring. (not in this thread so don't beat me up) If anyone finds the Troopers show boring it is because they want to find it boring. Not because it is. There is nothing boring about the product they are putting on the field. They are marching their collective _sses off at break-neck speed and playing while they are doing it. At least they aren't camping out on the field to blow or camping out for 2 weeks to practice in the middle of the season. They are touring and working their butts off sleeping on buses 5 nights a week.

The 3 minute ballad is boring.

Also, it's not so much about buckling down it's about catching what you throw in the air.

The opener...great. The end of the show is getting there. That middle...is killing me. Boring me to death.

[mckdan]

Having seen nothing but webcasts up til now, I can tell you that Troop (and many others) are a whole different corps in person. Troop was struggling with how to deliver the story of their show, but there are changes now that make it much clearer. I like what Academy has to offer musically, and they are definitely in the running. I wouldn't put Colts or Spirit out of the race either.

I think that the experience of Trooper's and Glassmen's staff will be the telling difference on who makes finals. Both of these corps have staffs which are battle-tested and know what the judges want in a show. Troopers are not as talented as G-men and even the Academy, but, they have a staff which knows the ins and outs of how to maximize their score. If any corps has the ability to edge out G-men for 12th it would have to be Troop!

[mckdan]

The 3 minute ballad is boring.

Also, it's not so much about buckling down it's about catching what you throw in the air.

The opener...great. The end of the show is getting there. That middle...is killing me. Boring me to death.

Troopers need to have a ballad to show their musicianship to the judges. This is one reason why they are beginning to improve in their show. They are willing to show musicianship through a ballad, where other corps are not willing to take a chance.

[Daave]

The 3 minute ballad is boring.

Also, it's not so much about buckling down it's about catching what you throw in the air.

The opener...great. The end of the show is getting there. That middle...is killing me. Boring me to death.

Ok, so I am a bit confused. Not directed at you at all, just using what you have posted to see if I can understand. You could insert any corps .

Anyyyyyyyways... On so many other threads, people opine that there are no more meoldies, the "chop and bop" rules and how nice it would be to hear complete melodic thought. In this instance, Troopers are not attempting this and instead playing Copeland for a period of time. Yet, at least in an opinion, it is tha bane of the show and boring.

So, my question is, which is it? Does the consumer desire (or are they conditioned) to hear the chop and bop, or is the consumer so conditioned that they cannot appreciate say Copeland for more than 2 minutes and be not bored?

[rwmoore001]

I think the Ballad is just that, A BALLAD? It is a beautiful piece of music that is arguably being played pretty #### well. Folks are going to have different opinions on the music, but to say you are being bored because of the ballad? I don't get it. I take you back to the pace of the Troopers show over-all and I think if you watch it and really look at how much is actually going on you will be hard pressed to be "bored". The designers have done a really fine job of constructing this show and it is only going to get cleaner.