audiodb Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Okay, I'll respond to it. I don't think DCI is going to die that everyone seems to think. Over the last couple of years, we've seem the number of corps going up right? No. The number of competing North American junior corps has not risen since 2003. Sure, there's only about 25 corps now ....psst - 46.... , but that's the same number there was when you were in it. And most members don't even know or care about it. Well, if you marched open-class for more than one season, and are still unaware that there are more than 25 corps, then you may have a point there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Yes, I did notice upon further research that the Cadets finished 13th in 1972, and 17th in 1973 in DCI.... and that the Blue Devils finished 24th in 1973 in DCI.But my central point holds, I believe. My point was that had the few Corps Directors that formulated DCI in 1972 organized a G-8 like proposal in 1972 , that it would have been pretty close to impossible for the Cadets and the Blue Devils to rise up the competitive ranks as they did a bit later in the decade. That is why I see the irony in all this. Those few Corps Directors that formed DCI in 1972 would never have orchestrated a system that would rig the system for a handful of Corps to get the competitive edge right from the getgo in 1972. While you have a point....so does Mike. Had a G7 or G8 been formed prior to the 1972 season (i.e. based on 1971 results), it is entirely possible that the Cadets (6th at World Open, 7th at VFW) would have been a charter member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INSIDETHEFORTY Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 I see your passion but there is NO evidence of this! You're making up what you want to read inbetween the lines! For christ sakes! When Did HOP or Gibbs or any representive of a G-8 corps say they hate or despise non-G-8 corps?! You may infer and speculate all you want. There is no POWER OR MONEY TO BE HAD IN DRUM CORPS!!! The "house" is not dividing! It's just a conversation. If I'm not happy with something thats going on drum corps being timid is not the best way to show that. You go big or go home. The "PROPOSAL!" (It's a proposal NOT LAW!) was just the "BIG" thing upper corps did to show their dissatisfaction with what's going on. NOW, talks commenced between them and DCI And ALL CORPS and a resonable outcome has been decided on. The outcome? MORE DRUM CORPS SHOWS! (The ones were just the Top 8 play there shows and other tunes) That was it! That's all that came out of the "PROPOSAL" And west coasters get more drum corps over there. IS THAT REALLY A BAD THING?!?!!?? *sits back down in seat* WE are speculating things that HAVEN'T HAPPENED!!!!! Can we all just tell ourselves that the Proposal was just that... a propsal. And yes it was a hot topic of debate, and yes it was rejected, and yes its now in the past... Let's move on from that! Do you have any history in drum corps? Have you been around long enough to truly see what has happened over the past 40 years? Have you lived through the nightmare of hundreds of corps going inactive and passing into oblivion? Do you know and talk with any of the former corps members whose drum corps no longer exist because of the failed policies of the elite corps in DCI? I did not "infer". I simply see what has happened to our corps from 1972 to the present. It does not take a genius or a crystal ball to see the trend. The National Touring corps model is not vialble for all drum corps. It is not even viable for most drum corps. Most drum corps should be, and must become, regional or local corps, in order to survive. The G-8, the corps with the most resourses, can afford to travel extensively. The other corps cannot afford to "keep up with the G-8" (as in keep up with the Joneses). Trying to keep up with the elite corps has killed many drum corps over the past 40 years! going deep into debt in order to tour with the big boys has caused the demise of too many corps! Corps directors! Understand the limitations of your corps and your organization. Stop pulling your corps way out on a limb financially or your corps will be a casualty as that limb breaks under the weight! Have the courage and the patience to encourage your corps' growth at a rate that your corps can handle without self-destructing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INSIDETHEFORTY Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Well, I've been around since the 60's, and I witnessed no such things. The hundreds of corps that failed had nothing at all to do with the attitudes of the 'elite', be it 64, 74, 84, etc.... Wow! that is just so UNtrue. Corps fought each other, literally. St Martin's Troubadors from Newark NJ, for instance, were folded by their moderator after the 69 Garden State champs after the had a huge rumble with the Bridgemen right on the field at championships. I NEVER heard of a circuit holding fundraisers and donating funds...can you give an example? Corps in the Garden State Circuit had enough trouble surviving on their own (and mostly failed), let alone raising money for another corps. Corps help each other today, fyi...I believe the Cadets donated their chuck wagon to Surf, for instance. That was not unique to the old days. While it is true that family members sometime squabble, they also help each other. Mike, I am sorry that you have never been witness to one or more corps helping a corps in trouble financially. It might help if you had some conversations with Don Warren, Steve Vickers, Tony De Carlo and some other influental drum corps personalities concerning that subject. They could probably do a much better job of convincing you of the sense of family that once existed in drum corps than I can. After all, who an I? just a guy who marched, sweated, and even bled for his drum corps. Just a guy who has spent untold thousands of dollars supporting drum corps since 1969. True, i do not wear a DCI championships ring, but I can say that I was at DCI Championships in 1973 as a marching member of Bue Rock. Even though we did not place in the top 12 that year, My age-out season was an experience I will never forget or take lightly. How does the G-8 promote the sense of comrader between corps that once existed? Remember, DCI was not created for the good of all drum corps. It was started to put the elite corps in a beter position competitivly, finanically and so forth. DCI was conceived to be for the good of the elite. It was never intended to be a benevolent organization for the good of all drum corps. The elite corps banded together for the good of the elite. The intention never was to help the corps that were not a part of the top 12. The intention was to promote and prosper the elite corps. The intention has not changed. It has simply come out of hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INSIDETHEFORTY Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 DCI pretty much WAS a "G8" when it was formed as compared to the rest of the activity in North America. The truth is finally being revealed! DCI was formed by a group of corps that wanted to control their own financial futures and veiled it under a desire for better rules, consistant judging and such. DCI was in 1972, the "G-12". They formed their own "circuit", held their own "championships" and kept the money for themselves, even though they used the corps outside of the G-12 to support their efforts by offering "membership in the elite" as an incentive. As time went on and DCI grew, the organization boycotted most of the established shows (World Open, Dream, Shriners, CYO, U S Open, etc) and set up it's own competitions on Saturdays, DCI Midwest, DCI East, etc. In the '70's, thanks to the "G-12", drum corps changed dramatically. Corps abandoned their AL/VFW/CYO sposors in favor of the promise of greater and continued prosperity under the "G=12" umbrella. As shows within the reach of local and regional corps dried up, the corps were forced to travel extensively to attend the coempetitions that were available. corps that could not afford to tour like the G-12 corps were forced to tour because the competitions that were once available in their region were disappearing! The "G-12" also put tremendous pressure on it's members and other corps to abandon their local circuits and attend DCI sanctioned competitions exclusively! The drum corps world changed from a local/community/regional corps world to a nationa/international/global corps world. The local/community and regional corps could not keep up financially and died, thanks to the "vision" of the "G-12"! Now, the G-12 has become the G-8. Will history repeat itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsigns Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) ............ Edited November 23, 2010 by adsigns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 No. The number of competing North American junior corps has not risen since 2003.....psst - 46.... Well, if you marched open-class for more than one season, and are still unaware that there are more than 25 corps, then you may have a point there. Not since 2003, but it has since 2006.... 46 total including Open Class, sorry. I was referring to World Class. I marched Open Class for 2 seasons, thank you. Not sure what that has anything to do with the conversation at hand though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 But the Blue Devils did not introduce any of the things you list....so how are they driving the activity? By winning.....? The same thing the Cavaliers did before them, and the Cadets before them......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 While that may have worked out nicely for a limited number of member corps, the activity as a whole has gone from 400+ corps to 40+ over that period....moved the decimal point over. Do you think the activity can survive moving the decimal point over again? Yes, I do. Part of the reason for all of the corps failing really rely solely on the invention of DCI, there were multiple factors, too many to list here, but if this works, and might I remind everyone this is just a test this year, then it could be a push that DCI needs to recharge and get more people and more corps in. Won't know until it happens. All we can do now is speculate, but no one will know how it went until after the season's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans87 Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Blue Devils "drive" the activity, just as the Cavies, Cadets and the whole lot of them from the "creativity, and performance" standpoint. Unfortunately, not ALL of the organizations have the financial backing the "drivers" have, (some of the "drivers" don't even have great finances, as Hop has said...) and the promotions of the "drivers" will kill the activity from a financial and business perspective. As I said before, you FSU, are missing the business side of this activity in a big way. If the elite 8 get what they want, everyone else will die or need to look for a new home. And if that happens, I would bet a majority of the folks on this "planet" will support the "outcasts", and then yes, the elite 8 will be in trouble. I don't care about any one corps financial stability. I care about ALL of them. And I have and will support them all in the future. But the greed of the elite will drive my resources AWAY from them because what they want is not good for the whole. And adsigns - it is time the powers realize we care about the activity, INCLUDING their very own corps. But not at the expense of the entire activity. I support in several ways, including donating to the Imperial Sound start up. I have no relationship with them. But if I can help them get going, and I believe in the core of what they are doing, I will do what I can. The "man behind the curtain" has reveled himself. And he is not "positive" at all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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