Are the judges anti-Spirit or what?

[derbydawg]

I was at the Gadsden show and was shocked by the score as were many people I spoke to, most of whom are not necessarily Spirit fans nor connected to the corps.

Like a lot of people, we see a show live and form an opinion as to who should be beating whom. You step away after a few days or after the season and decide maybe you weren't quite right. This is not one of those times. It was not even close. Crossmen kept me scared the whole time like the wheels could come off at any second. Spirit was bold and confident, really clean in almost the entire show, and getting some energy into the crowd, something which only Blue Stars, Bluecoats, and Cavies were able to do. It makes no sense.

I feel like once we get past corps 7 or 8 it is a crap shoot and there just isn't that much regard for getting things right beyond that. Those top corps are on the board and drive the ship. If enough don't like a judge, they are gone. Judges talk too much to each other and have a chain of big dawgs that steer opinion too much. It is a small niche of people that judge for a variety of reasons and that is part of the problem. In my career I have to be around some of these guys and I hear and see too many things that are troubling. Judging should be about the members and the activity. The more fair and the more each corps counts, the better for drum corps. The G7 have been working diligently the past five or so years to change things and maybe this is reflected in the current judging environment. Makes me sad for Spirit and others affected by it all.

[Pinwiz]

Thank you for saying what so many are afraid to say. I love me some Troop, but seriously, there were at least 2 other shows in 2009 which should have been placed above that.

And it's a shame that Troop's music performances were scored better than BK/Glassmen finals week. You can hear it on the CDs. I know that people wanted their favorites to make it and are willing to invent a conspiracy that made it happen, but the proof is in the recordings.

[TimeBandit]

I just wonder who the all powerful wizard of oz is with DCI that decides the outcomes. Kinda like the random drawing for performance times that was supposed to happen? I really don't think it was too random and Spirits scores were decided by the wizard of DCI before the season began.

[sagnasty]

Ok, no refunds for rainouts, fan network feed pukes out, judges on the fix. What a great activity to be a part of.

[BRASSO]

I just wonder who the all powerful wizard of oz is with DCI that decides the outcomes. Kinda like the random drawing for performance times that was supposed to happen? I really don't think it was too random and Spirits scores were decided by the wizard of DCI before the season began.

I'm not a conspiratist. I don't believe that judges intentionally set out to score a Corps higher or lower. But I also recognize that judges are human and they don't live in an isolation booth. They know about the rift in DCI. They know who the power brokers, the influence makers are ,and who has contacts in the college band world and in the equipment and uniform mfg. world.. ( and conversely, who does not have such powerful influences ) There are Corps... even groups of Corps... that have powerful influences, that others simply do not have. DCI is a small organization. Everyody knows everybody else in upper management, in the judging community and the show design community.. But everybody else is not equal with everybody else, TimeBandit. This is not conjecture here. This is not speculation. This info is provided to you by somebody that knows. Again, I 'm not saying scores and placements are " fixed ". They are not fixed. They are not pre determined either. But follow the money trail. It will lead you to wisdom regarding the scores and placements that no mere reading of the judges captions could ever possibly do..... Also, what takes place off the field enters the feld of competition regarding these Corps. It can't be avoided unfortunately. Anyone that tells you differently is not privy frankly to what goes on, and frankly I don't care what they think because they don't know what I know. Those who have been involved at either the management level or at the judging level of DCI know that what I just said is an accurate portrayal of DCI judging and the natural influences that can not be avoided nor mitigated to any degree, short of selecting judges from the entertainment world, and totally free from DCI altogether. Whether or not they will freely admit publically to you that what I'm saying is an accurate portrayal of the judging influences however is another matter altogether.... anyway,' hope you found this info helpful, TimeBandit, in trying to make sense of what can sometimes be head scratching scores and placements.

Edited August 1, 2010 by BRASSO

[TimeBandit]

I'm not a conspiratist. I don't believe that judges intentionally set out to score a Corps higher or lower. But I also recognize that judges are human and they don't live in an isolation booth. They know about the rift in DCI. They know who the power brokers, the influence makers are ,and who has contacts in the college band world and in the equipment and uniform mfg. world.. ( and conversely, who does not have such powerful influences ) There are Corps... even groups of Corps... that have powerful influences, that others simply do not have. DCI is a small organization. Everyody knows everybody else in upper management, in the judging community and the show design community.. But everybody else is not equal with everybody else, TimeBandit. This is not conjecture here. This is not speculation. This info is provided to you by somebody that knows. Again, I 'm not saying scores and placements are " fixed ". They are not fixed. They are not pre determined either. But follow the money trail. It will lead you to wisdom regarding the scores and placements that no mere reading of the judges captions could ever possibly do..... Also, what takes place off the field enters the feld of competition regarding these Corps. It can't be avoided unfortunately. Anyone that tells you differently is not privy frankly to what goes on, and frankly I don't care what they think because they don't know what I know. Those who have been involved at either the management level or at the judging level of DCI know that what I just said is an accurate portrayal of DCI judging and the natural influences that can not be avoided nor mitigated to any degree, short of selecting judges from the entertainment world, and totally free from DCI altogether. Whether or not they will freely admit publically to you that what I'm saying is an accurate portrayal of the judging influences however is another matter altogether.... anyway,' hope you found this info helpful, TimeBandit, in trying to make sense of what can sometimes be head scratching scores and placements.

What your saying then is that a smaller corps, no matter how good could never beat a larger more financially advantaged corps. The more money you have, the easier it is for you to do well.

[Tom Brace]

I saw Spirit's show last night on the FN. I believe they are placed in the appropriate spot for the show they presented.

[BRASSO]

What your saying then is that a smaller corps, no matter how good could never beat a larger more financially advantaged corps. The more money you have, the easier it is for you to do well.

Somewhat. But it's not the money, so much as who has the power and influence in this rather small and insulated Drum Corps community ( although this is mostly a difference without a distinction as we're splitting hairs on this to be sure, as they're oftentimes are one and the same )

[chadwick]

I agree with most and feel they should be scored a little higher than they are currently. I think their music book is a touch more difficult, yet being executed well, than some of the corps just in front of them. I would put them closer to the Academy and Glassmen.

The guard is having a bit of a rough time. They are better than the last couple years though.

They are quite young this year, but I hear from my friend that is on their staff that they are having a fantastic time. He expects a lot of members to return next year.

[GUARDLING]

I agree with most and feel they should be scored a little higher than they are currently. I think their music book is a touch more difficult, yet being executed well, than some of the corps just in front of them. I would put them closer to the Academy and Glassmen.

The guard is having a bit of a rough time. They are better than the last couple years though.

They are quite young this year, but I hear from my friend that is on their staff that they are having a fantastic time. He expects a lot of members to return next year.

I think the Guard in MUCH better than the past few years...seems like a new influnce there...not sure