Will the friends of DCI plan work?

[ShortAndFast]

What do you think the market value of those seats would be?

Perhaps DCI should put all of the best seats on e-bay and sell them at auction. That would establish a market value.

How do you know that someone wouldn't pay $1000 for a 50 yard line, box-height seat at Finals? People pay ridiculous prices all the time at entertainment events for premium seating, which is why I usually wind up sitting in the nose bleed seats when I go to concerts!

An auction would certainly establish market value, but DCI could also try having more explicit price levels for different quality seats. For a non FoDCI, "Super Premium" currently covers everything from that awesome seat on the 50 through a crappy seat on the 20, all for the same $125. How many takers would DCI get if it offered Section 240/340/440 in Indy at $450 each?

[ShortAndFast]

Let's clarify this with a real example: If I give DCI $2500 to be a Platinum member I'm entitled to get 6 packages of tickets in the Friends block (undoubetedly the best seats in the house), and the ability to buy - at face-value cost - up to 4 additional for a total of 10 tickets to each of quarters, semis, and finals. Let's say I don't buy any additional tickets. Each package of three tickets, at face value, is worth $250, so six of them is $1500. I also get to attend the Friends breakfast in Indy and hobnob with all my rich friends ( ). I also get two passes to the VIP area where there is usually snacks and drinks (can't imagine I've ever eaten $20 - total - in the VIP area. I get a FanNetwork membership ($60), two yearbooks (never boughht one, how much are they - $5.00??), a subscription to DCI mag, and a nice letter thanking me for my contribution.

The net value of the items I receive for my donation is about $1,600. I get a tax statement showing that my charitable contribution is something like $900. I get a 30% tax deduction so my "cost" for my membership is about $2,230 (could be more or less depending on the value of the premiums I receive).

So, for the cost of about $1,600 worth of 'goodies', DCI gets $2,500 from me.

If they sold my Friends tickets to you instead (presuming you're not a Friends member), they get $1500 from you.

Which do you think is better for the activity, and do you still think DCI would get more money by not granting tickets to Friends members and selling them to the public instead?

In the abstract, offering $1600 in goodies to get a net $900 donation does not strike me as a slam-dunk fundraising success. What percentage of FoDCI members would still donate $900 a year even if they had to buy their premium seats for Finals?

DCI has obviously stuck with the Friends program for a long time, so maybe they've done all the market research on this and really are maximizing revenue. But given the number of Friends members who are selling 50 yard line tickets to non-Friends members every year, I have to believe that there's a significant number of people who would pay for premium tickets who are not currently in Friends.

[garfield]

How do you know that someone wouldn't pay $1000 for a 50 yard line, box-height seat at Finals? People pay ridiculous prices all the time at entertainment events for premium seating, which is why I usually wind up sitting in the nose bleed seats when I go to concerts!

An auction would certainly establish market value, but DCI could also try having more explicit price levels for different quality seats. For a non FoDCI, "Super Premium" currently covers everything from that awesome seat on the 50 through a crappy seat on the 20, all for the same $125. How many takers would DCI get if it offered Section 240/340/440 in Indy at $450 each?

Well, that's the question: How many would they get? They're having trouble filling the home-side now and driving up tickets prices would increase attendance how? And if the auction is a success, do you think you'll still be able to get seats in sec 239 for $125? I can see them doubling. Pervade that through the whole stadium and I think you'd see attendance decline even more.

And those people out there that you claim would pay these prices...are they FoDCI members now? If someone today is willing to pay that price I'd contend that they are already FoDCI members, and those people who say today that ticket prices are too high will have more to gripe about if seats went for $450 each! (And then membership to DCP would skyrocket because everyone here is now here to bartch about something )

[Jeff Ream]

I do have to say, I'm not sure of the wisdom of DCI basically selling their top-end product (50 yard line seats at Finals) exclusively through their donors. It seems like there's a lot of revenue being left on the table with this approach. It works for me, as I am able to buy great seats from FoDCI members every year. But DCI could certainly get more money if they priced finals seats at their market value and sold them directly.

how is revenue lost?

friends pay for the tickets in addition to thir level donation. If sponsors get freebies, it's offset by the amount the sponsors pay for.

Having been a part of a friends group from 90 to 2002, I can tell you that many good people gave a lot of money to DCI willingly, and the program is good and those folks get treated like gold. My only customer service issues as far as tickets during my years in that group was with local shows.

[Jeff Ream]

How do you know that someone wouldn't pay $1000 for a 50 yard line, box-height seat at Finals? People pay ridiculous prices all the time at entertainment events for premium seating, which is why I usually wind up sitting in the nose bleed seats when I go to concerts!

An auction would certainly establish market value, but DCI could also try having more explicit price levels for different quality seats. For a non FoDCI, "Super Premium" currently covers everything from that awesome seat on the 50 through a crappy seat on the 20, all for the same $125. How many takers would DCI get if it offered Section 240/340/440 in Indy at $450 each?

i'll tell you...because when i could not go last year, i put my seats on Ebay

i got 6 offers for a loss, and one for face value. they were great seats

Edited August 2, 2010 by Jeff Ream

[Jeff Ream]

In the abstract, offering $1600 in goodies to get a net $900 donation does not strike me as a slam-dunk fundraising success. What percentage of FoDCI members would still donate $900 a year even if they had to buy their premium seats for Finals?

DCI has obviously stuck with the Friends program for a long time, so maybe they've done all the market research on this and really are maximizing revenue. But given the number of Friends members who are selling 50 yard line tickets to non-Friends members every year, I have to believe that there's a significant number of people who would pay for premium tickets who are not currently in Friends.

that's just the bronze level. now let's say you donate 10k, and get $1600 in goodies.

DCI gets $8400.

[garfield]

In the abstract, offering $1600 in goodies to get a net $900 donation does not strike me as a slam-dunk fundraising success. What percentage of FoDCI members would still donate $900 a year even if they had to buy their premium seats for Finals?

DCI has obviously stuck with the Friends program for a long time, so maybe they've done all the market research on this and really are maximizing revenue. But given the number of Friends members who are selling 50 yard line tickets to non-Friends members every year, I have to believe that there's a significant number of people who would pay for premium tickets who are not currently in Friends.

Well, when the alternative is to get $1500 flat for the same number of tickets sold, I think it clearly is a fundraising success.

I still have to "buy" my seats each year, just like a non-FoDCI.

You can get premium seats by not being a Friends member if you're the first to buy a Friends block ticket after the Friends orders have been filled.

Although DCI shows the "Friends Block" on their website it only suggests that this is where Friends will sit; it does not indicate that the whole section is reserved only for Friends. If FoDCI membership declines then it's possible that seats in those areas will be sold to the public. DCI knows about how many FoDCI ticket requests they'll have by the end of the year so they'll know how many of that reserved Friends area they'll actually use. The rest will be given to non-FoDCI buyers in, I presume, first-come, first-served order.

[garfield]

that's just the bronze level. now let's say you donate 10k, and get $1600 in goodies.

DCI gets $8400.

eh, your sentiment is right, Jeff, but your math is fuzzy. The Diamond level ($5000) is generally the corporate donation level and, with that level, you can get some additional negotiating room for perks from DCI.

I'd think that, for a $10,000 donation, you could negotiate the best of everything and those costs, borne by DCI to reward you, would subtract from DCI's net benefit from your donation.

Now, if someone was willing to give $10,000 and get "just" the Platinum level of benefit then your math would be accurate.

It is true that DCI makes more "net" from the higher donation levels, but they also have to provide more benefits to the higher donors.

And don't forget that the choicest seats in the FoDCI block go to those who give the most AND have been members in that level for the longest. So the first year you plunk down $2500 for Platinum level you may still be sitting on the outside edges of that level's seats but, presumably, those would still be better seats than a multi-year "Gold" donor gets.

[ShortAndFast]

Well, when the alternative is to get $1500 flat for the same number of tickets sold, I think it clearly is a fundraising success.

I still have to "buy" my seats each year, just like a non-FoDCI.

The ticket price + donation I get. I think that's pretty common for arts organizations. I just got a mailer for San Francisco Opera's 2011 Ring Cycle - if I want an orchestra seat, I'd have to pay $2300 of which $1120 is a mandatory donation to their 501c3. So I see that DCI is doing something similar by bundling the donation and the premium seats.

The part that I don't fully understand is why DCI gives so many tickets to Friends members, basically guaranteeing that many of them are going to be resold on the secondary market. It seems like many of those could be sold first hand by DCI to people who want great seats, and either charge them a suitably high price or require a donation.

As I said above, DCI has done this for a long time, so I understand that maybe they've analyzed this to death and are indeed maximizing revenue. As an outsider, it just seems like an unusual approach to marketing premium arts products.

[garfield]

The ticket price + donation I get. I think that's pretty common for arts organizations. I just got a mailer for San Francisco Opera's 2011 Ring Cycle - if I want an orchestra seat, I'd have to pay $2300 of which $1120 is a mandatory donation to their 501c3. So I see that DCI is doing something similar by bundling the donation and the premium seats.

The part that I don't fully understand is why DCI gives so many tickets to Friends members, basically guaranteeing that many of them are going to be resold on the secondary market. It seems like many of those could be sold first hand by DCI to people who want great seats, and either charge them a suitably high price or require a donation.

As I said above, DCI has done this for a long time, so I understand that maybe they've analyzed this to death and are indeed maximizing revenue. As an outsider, it just seems like an unusual approach to marketing premium arts products.

There's a page in the G7 proposal that says the Friends program would need to be reviewed along with other cost centers. So you can be sure this question will come under review, as will the price for the various levels of membership. About 4 years ago the Friends program had a significant price increase, taking the Platinum level from $2000 to $2,500. I spent a few minutes talking with Dan A. about the magnitude of the increase after several years of incremental increases (I joined back in the '80s for $25 at the minimum level). He was understanding but firm. After much consideration I decided that, for me, it was worth it.

There is a bit of "Scout's Honor" in the Friends ticketing system, in that you're not supposed to let tickets go to waste and leave seats empty. But beyond that there's no difference to them (or, when you think about it, to you) whether I sell my extra tickets or use them myself.

EDIT: There is one difference. If I sell my tickets then DCI saves money because they don't have to give the person I sell to the other benefits of membership, i.e. FanNetwork, programs, breakfast, etc. in order to get those good seats.

Edited August 2, 2010 by garfield