Ironic

[CrunchyTenor]

" Phenomenal success". I marched for the guy in the Colts and can safely say that 28th wasn't very awesome. He didn't succeed until the money started flowing from the multimillionaire he worked for. It takes cash to be good in this game. If he has it backing him, he can do wonders, but Orwoll had the same community Jim did and took the Colts to the promised land without the money.

Evidently, Bill Cook saw something in Jim (when Bill's son was marching there) and offered him the opportunity. It paid off for both of them.

A good manager isn't necessarily a good fund-raiser. Obviously, Greg has had more success at that than Jim did, and should take pride in that.

Garry in Vegas

Edited August 13, 2010 by CrunchyTenor

[Fran Haring]

Well there is a big difference between what Star chose to do and what G7 wants to do. Star didn't ask for more votes or more money from DCI. Star didn't try to get other corps dropped from DCI. Star didn't try to organize a group of other corps to take over DCI or unilaterally remove the executive director of DCI. Star didn't try to pick and choose who it would tour with while still a DCI member.

Star simply said, "This isn't working for us any more. We want to go in a different direction. We're leaving DCI."

One, two, or all seven G7 corps may eventually say, "This isn't working for us any more. We want to go in a different direction. We're leaving DCI." But in the meantime, if it isn't too much bother, they'd like to have the best of both worlds, test the water with their big toe, build their own audience, stadiums, business model, and contacts, and do the stuff Star didn't do that would hurt the other DCI corps.

Again, it should be All In, or All Out. They shouldn't get an opportunity to get stronger while making others weaker. Star didn't do that.

Well-said. Excellent post.

[Eric M. Buckman]

Well there is a big difference between what Star chose to do and what G7 wants to do. Star didn't ask for more votes or more money from DCI. Star didn't try to get other corps dropped from DCI. Star didn't try to organize a group of other corps to take over DCI or unilaterally remove the executive director of DCI. Star didn't try to pick and choose who it would tour with while still a DCI member.

Star simply said, "This isn't working for us any more. We want to go in a different direction. We're leaving DCI."

One, two, or all seven G7 corps may eventually say, "This isn't working for us any more. We want to go in a different direction. We're leaving DCI." But in the meantime, if it isn't too much bother, they'd like to have the best of both worlds, test the water with their big toe, build their own audience, stadiums, business model, and contacts, and do the stuff Star didn't do that would hurt the other DCI corps.

Again, it should be All In, or All Out. They shouldn't get an opportunity to get stronger while making others weaker. Star didn't do that.

Funny when you say "Star" left...do you really think that was a service to the group of kids that were marching members...and to be quite honest...they had NO! say in the matter...that was a sad day for all involved no matter how great BLAST was...for someone...and I'm not sure exactly who decided they would take their toys and go play some where else, by dismantling the Star of Indiana...Blast could have been formed without skuttling Star. Again...I am an avid fan of the Star organization in it's entirety..but what happened wasn't based on positives, as i understand it...it was based on the malcontent for the politics of dci and the fact that their Corps didnt win! but that happens all the time...I mean there aren't any conspiracy theories that have ever floated around about Corps placements...now have there? Or score changes at finals. DCI is as politically polluted and corrupt as every other subjective sporting venue based on judges.

Sorry for the diatribe...but I guess what I am getting at is this really wasn't a decision the kids made or supported, this was a decision made by one or two, that no longer enjoyed the game they got into and that is fine, but don't use the general moniker of "Star" left because that is a missnomer...no matter how you spin it. That is evident by how strong their alumni are and how sad it was when they closed up shop.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Eric M. Buckman

[Peel Paint]

Funny when you say "Star" left...do you really think that was a service to the group of kids that were marching members...and to be quite honest...they had NO! say in the matter...that was a sad day for all involved no matter how great BLAST was...for someone...and I'm not sure exactly who decided they would take their toys and go play some where else, by dismantling the Star of Indiana...Blast could have been formed without skuttling Star. Again...I am an avid fan of the Star organization in it's entirety..but what happened wasn't based on positives, as i understand it...it was based on the malcontent for the politics of dci and the fact that their Corps didnt win! but that happens all the time...I mean there aren't any conspiracy theories that have ever floated around about Corps placements...now have there? Or score changes at finals. DCI is as politically polluted and corrupt as every other subjective sporting venue based on judges.

Sorry for the diatribe...but I guess what I am getting at is this really wasn't a decision the kids made or supported, this was a decision made by one or two, that no longer enjoyed the game they got into and that is fine, but don't use the general moniker of "Star" left because that is a missnomer...no matter how you spin it. That is evident by how strong their alumni are and how sad it was when they closed up shop.

I understand "the kids" in Star had no say in leaving DCI and who knows, may have voted differently, not that corps members ever get much say in such things. That isn't what my response was about. In this thread, we're talking about corps management, not corps membership. Mason/Cook vs. Hop and Gibbs et al and the difference in approaches to handling dissatisfaction to being in DCI. Jim Mason was being challenged above on being guilty of the same sins as G7. I don't think the comparison is warranted.

I'd leave it there, but I can't help but be struck by your phrase "...take their toys and go home." Interesting choice of words since the allusion to "toys" was commonly heard among Star haters and those who were jealous of Star and its funding back in the late 1980s. It was part of what made things harder for Star than necessary and may have played a role in their choice to move on. Later it was used against them by some of the same people who then became angry at DCI being "deserted" by Star. They were accused of cowardice on the competitive field.

But look, it's water under the bridge, and it's off-topic here, as far as I'm concerned. Those who wish to continue to tilt against the Star windmill all these years later will have to carry on their crusade without me.

[madalumni]

Didn't win? What do you call what happened in 1991?

Edited August 15, 2010 by madalumni

[byline]

Didn't win? What do you call what happened in 1991?

I suspect the poster is referring to 1993, when I would agree that Star should have won. And, arguably, they should have won in '90 and/or '92, too.

[DCIHasBeen]

I suspect the poster is referring to 1993, when I would agree that Star should have won. And, arguably, they should have won in '90 and/or '92, too.

Cadets had one of, IMNSHO, their best shows ever in '93 ... The fact that it was so close meant it was anyone's game and the Cadets won.

[Eric M. Buckman]

I'm just sad...and it proves my point from this past weekend..STAR was OUTSTANDING...and that Corps should exist as a Drum and Bugle Corps on the competitive field...and I am happy for all my friends who are Alumni of the group, but I am sad for the lost opportunity that many others never got to experience...they are one of the finest groups ever to exist...with or without all their extra "Toys" and the refernce was not meant to disrespect, it was meant as a reference to yes how they were perceived back when they departed the activity.

[phantomphan8384]

Well there is a big difference between what Star chose to do and what G7 wants to do. Star didn't ask for more votes or more money from DCI. Star didn't try to get other corps dropped from DCI. Star didn't try to organize a group of other corps to take over DCI or unilaterally remove the executive director of DCI. Star didn't try to pick and choose who it would tour with while still a DCI member.

Star simply said, "This isn't working for us any more. We want to go in a different direction. We're leaving DCI."

One, two, or all seven G7 corps may eventually say, "This isn't working for us any more. We want to go in a different direction. We're leaving DCI." But in the meantime, if it isn't too much bother, they'd like to have the best of both worlds, test the water with their big toe, build their own audience, stadiums, business model, and contacts, and do the stuff Star didn't do that would hurt the other DCI corps.

Again, it should be All In, or All Out. They shouldn't get an opportunity to get stronger while making others weaker. Star didn't do that.

ABSOLUTELY! What Star did in 1993 was purely motivated by their own desires professionally. I think we need a reminder that DCI is an AMATEUR activity. In my 9 years of marching I never remember being paid for my services. I am not sure if the Blast! members were paid or not, but I can't imagine all that work and all those performances for free. There may have been a small part of them that decided after the 1993 debacle that it doesn't matter how transforming or spectactular your program is, you could still get screwed. I stood on the sidelines in 1993 and heard Star and Cadets (I was an instructor for Regiment) and in my heart I believed we wouuld be second to Star. I understood that after that production, show design and demands on the performer would never be the same, and that deserves a championship if the performance backed it up, and it did. No offense to Cadets, but the finals performance was not championship-calibre, just listen to the audio recording for the first minute and you could tell right away, yet they win. What a crock. Everybody said Star just packed up their toys and went home, well maybe they just wanted to share their toys with people who knew how to play with them. I am sure the SOI organization made some money from Blast!, but they never held DCI hostage. This G7 garbage is just that, a hostile takeover. I have seen the new amendments to the proposal and it is still crap. Regardless of the outcome of this situation, DCI will never be the same. True fans of the activity will forever be leery of these corps' actions as of late and will pass on their disapproval at every show. The unfortunate victims in the middle of all of this will be the members of these corps. They all bust their rear ends doing what they love, but greedy and selfish adults have placed them in the middle. Way to go, directors. Maybe Star wasn't so dumb after all...why would they ever consider a comeback?

[Jeff Ream]

he didn't leave DCi because he was mad at it or wanted more money. the deal was already in the works before finals.

Isn't it ironic that his group "left" DCI to do it's own thing, and now he's taking "sides" with DCI? Has he explained that anywhere? I would love to read it if he has!!