EASY FIX to increase Open Class participation

[Richard]

You Might get more people. And you would sacrifice spots that younger marchers could have taken. Interesting idea, but I would be against it.

This implies that Open Class corps have a limited number of spots and are close to or at that limit. Outside of BDB, did any OC finalist field more than 100 members? Spots are not the issue here.

And what about open class corps that have folded?

According to your numbers, in 2000 DCI has 19-20 corps including Troopers and Seattle that did not tour. In 2008 DCI has 20 world class corps. In 2010, DCI had 23 world class corps.

World Class:

2000 - 19 Corps

2001 - 18 (Tarheel Sun folded)

2002 - 19 (Cascades move up)

2003 - 23 (PC, Cap Reg, Mandarins, Magic move up)

2004 - 24 (Esperanza moves up)

2005 - 24

2006 - 23 (Kiwanis/Troopers out, Blue Stars in)

2007 - 22 (Cap Reg, Magic, Esperanza out, Academy in, Troopers return)

2008 - 20 (Southwind, Cascades out)

2009 - 22 (Surf in, Cascades return)

2010 - 23 (Teal Sound in)

The numbers only paint part of the picture. Without looking at decisions made by each corps and what ultimately led to their current status, you can't draw any kind of accurate conclusion. A while back I started digging into what happened with all the OC corps since 2000 to now. By my rough count, there were 46 OC groups in 2000. There are probably somewhere around 20 more that started and failed within the decade as well. Anywhere, here's the list of corps that competed in DCI shows in 2000. I'm not even sure these are all OC groups (or D2/3 back then). I started researching them but only got so far.

Allegiance Elite - Merged with Edmonton Strutters in 2004 to become Fusion. All-age as of 2009

Americanos - Lot's of discussion on here about this corps management, and if the desire even exists to run a corps. Indefinitely folded drum corps - only indoor percussion and winterguard.

Bandettes -

Blue Devils B - Active

Blue Stars - World Class

Capital Regiment - World Class in 2003, Inactive in 2008, Open Class in 2009, Inactive in 2010. Many questions surround their 990s, operating expenses, and leadership/board structure.

Capital Sound -

Cincinnati Glory - Merged with Marion Cadets in 2001

Colt Cadets - Active

Decorah Kilties -

Delta Brigade -

Dutch Boy - Inactive as of 2010

East Coast Jazz - Folded after 2006 finals when buses were impounded in Madison and equipment was sold to cover costs to get home. I've heard first-hand accounts of poor record keeping and members marching multiple years for free.

Edmonton Strutters - Merged with Allegiance Elite in 2004 to become Fusion. Parade corps (focused on younger musicians) with DCI aspirations according to web site. Also maintain Movado winter guard.

Emerald Knights -

Esperanza - Moved up in 2004, folded after 2006 season

General Butler Vagabonds - Wiki - Before the 2001 season, the 1990s version of the Vagabonds abruptly collapsed due to internal conflict.

HYPE - ???

Impulse - Active

Jersey Surf - World Class

Joliet Kingsmen -

Kips Bay Crusaders -

Knight Storm - Decided to dissolve in May 2001 citing recruiting difficulties (http://www.scorpsboard.com/news/2001_news/knight_storm5_14_01.html)

Lake Erie Regiment -

Legend of Texas - Wiki - 2 years active, "substantially longer tour" in 2000, "unable to financially field a corps" in 2001

Les Sénateurs - Merged with Les Sentinelles to form Quebec Alliance in 2002. "Recruiting challenges" led to demise in 2004." Contributing to such recruiting challenges was the quickly shrinking division III drum corps season. Once all remaining regional drum corps circuits had been taken over by DCI, Eastern division III corps could no longer take part in the quick DCE or DCI Atlantic Division tour that had been held in early July for most of the 1990s. All that division III units could aspire to was a short season lasting less than three weeks, with limited competitive appearances on weekdays in cities that happened to be on the road to the DCI Championships location. This had limited appeal for many potential members." (http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?ID=697)

Les Sentinelles - Merged with Les Senateurs to form Quebec Alliance in 2002. "Recruiting challenges" led to demise in 2004." Contributing to such recruiting challenges was the quickly shrinking division III drum corps season. Once all remaining regional drum corps circuits had been taken over by DCI, Eastern division III corps could no longer take part in the quick DCE or DCI Atlantic Division tour that had been held in early July for most of the 1990s. All that division III units could aspire to was a short season lasting less than three weeks, with limited competitive appearances on weekdays in cities that happened to be on the road to the DCI Championships location. This had limited appeal for many potential members." (http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?ID=697)

Les Stentors - Active

Mandarins - World Class

Mélomanes - Folded after 2000 - ???(http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?ID=693)

Memorial Lancers - ???

Oregon Crusaders - Active

Pacific Crest - World Class

Patriots - Folded after 2003 - I've heard first hand accounts of members being paid to march

Phoenix - Brick, NJ - ????

Racine Scouts - Active

Raiders - Active

Scenic City - ???

Seattle Cascades - World Class

Spartans - Active

Spectrum -

Tampa Bay Thunder - Merged with Kiwanis Kavaliers in 2002

Teal Sound - World Class

Vanguard Cadets - Active

West Coast Sound - ???

Yamato -

Just from what I was able to dig up, it's hard to say that Open Class is a less sustainable model than World Class. My conclusion is that the groups that were in D1 in 2000 were MOSTLY financially stable and the groups that were in D2/3 were MOSTLY financially unstable. Now I would guess that groups in both classes are mostly financially stable. So while the total number has declined, the percentage of stable groups has significantly increased.

An economic downturn was all it took to separate many of those that had a sound business plan from those that were running an organization by the seat of their pants. To Tom's point though, many of the groups that folded out of World Class started as Open Class units. I would guess that in some of these situations, moving to World Class made these groups LESS financially stable.

[tnmaiello]

[At what point does it become about making the individual corps stronger and not doing what is best for the general good of the cause?

I have that debate in my head all the time. The Raiders could not afford to attend 2 OC shows in New England this summer. I got alot of grief about that. It was best for the Raiders to stay in NJ and go to the TOS in Bayonne. But it would have been better for the good of the order for the Raiders to go to the OC shows. There needs to be a balance and effort by all. There is no 1 clear answer. THere are many issues that need to be addressed.

[jhallman]

As a parent, I had a tough time with letting my 14 year old travel with 21 year olds.

Let the 22 year old's be on staff and make DCA better.

in regards to sustainability

In 2003, BDB had so few performers, the board seriously looked at folding the organization.

Rick and Debbie Odello

[ajwdad]

As a parent, I had a tough time with letting my 14 year old travel with 21 year olds.

Let the 22 year old's be on staff and make DCA better.

in regards to sustainability

In 2003, BDB had so few performers, the board seriously looked at folding the organization.

Rick and Debbie Odello

:tongue:

[ajwdad]

This implies that Open Class corps have a limited number of spots and are close to or at that limit. Outside of BDB, did any OC finalist field more than 100 members? Spots are not the issue here.

Interesting. BDB definitely has tryouts. And not everyone makes the corp.

If spots are not a problem, then perhaps the lure of the OC corps is the problem. Or perhaps the lure of other activities. But, even if you are right, I would not be in favor of raising the age of OC. Instead, raise the age of WC, and raise the minimum age of WC as well.

[matgencontra]

Interesting. BDB definitely has tryouts. And not everyone makes the corp.

If spots are not a problem, then perhaps the lure of the OC corps is the problem. Or perhaps the lure of other activities. But, even if you are right, I would not be in favor of raising the age of OC. Instead, raise the age of WC, and raise the minimum age of WC as well.

If we raise the age again, would DCI be a youth orginazation or a semi-professional musical entertaiment spectacular organization like the self-named G7 propose. The inclusion of expensive sound equipment even in the OC has made it more difficult to maintain budgets and as we get closer to being bands this may deter some students from considering OC and opt for their HS bands instead.

[Marching Mallets]

World Class would never allow this, plus any older good kids you have will just be scooped up 7 weeks before the season by a World Class Corps anyway.

The open class corps are doing a nice job getting back in the mix and proving to be a great place for students to start. I can remember a few years ago people saying this division would no longer be here in a few years, but more corps are popping up and the talent is very good.

Stick to what you know, recruit, run a good business and stop posting on DCP that you have 45 horns in January.

[kansasDC]

Interesting. BDB definitely has tryouts. And not everyone makes the corp.

If spots are not a problem, then perhaps the lure of the OC corps is the problem. Or perhaps the lure of other activities. But, even if you are right, I would not be in favor of raising the age of OC. Instead, raise the age of WC, and raise the minimum age of WC as well.

Just butting in to clarify something. Although many WC corps have a stated minimum age, there is no rule in DCI WC that mandates a minimum age for any marching member. My son started in a WC corps at 13 and I know of other cases in recent years as young as 12. There are some WC corps that state that their minimum age is 16 or a graduating HS senior, but there is no rule that prohibits a very talented and mature 8 year old from marching. Maybe common sense prohibits it, but no written rule.

[EKBari]

WC corps folded since 2000

Southwind

Magic

Kiwanis Kavaliers

Tarheel Sun

Captial Regiment

Esperanza.

and by the way, DCI around 2000 only had a legit 17 or 18 WC corps. this also doesnt count asbeences by Troopers and Seattle, or Cap Reg's brief comeback in OC. just 2 years ago WC only had 20 corps.

Am I the only one to notice that all the corps listed above competed in OC/D2/Class A?

[Gbassman5]

Am I the only one to notice that all the corps listed above competed in OC/D2/Class A?

no, you definitely aren't, brother