mobrien Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) except that dorkiness seems to be bringing a helluva lot more money You realize that the point of junior drum and bugle corps is not "to make a lot of money", right? Seriously - go look it up in anyone's mission statement, and I don't think you'll find the phrase "building excellent young people and making a lot of money." Again, lowest common denominator entertainment, food, and culture is all around you. Go eat up. If Cavaliers' show was too deep, or the idea of "mirroring" in Devils' program was too much, then I say book it out for Branson this August instead; you can watch Andy Williams and never need to engage either your musical or your intellectual gears. Edited February 1, 2011 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 > I'm assuming they are pushing for pro-stadiums and doing extra TOC shows because they know that a market is out there to be had. The push to more pro stadiums was an attempt to legitimize the Major League aspect in hopes of drawing in more crowds (ie the build it and they will come mentality); as for the TOC (G8) shows, these newer format shows are an outgrowth of the G7 proposal, and whether the DCI voting members caved in a compromise or there was a threat of the G7 to bail out of DCI if they did not occur, these newer format shows are sort of a trial balloon in another attempt to increase ticket sales. I personally would like to see the market research that supported both of these attempts because the cost risks are enormous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) mobrien: A non-profit does not mean “do not make money”; it just means that all profits have to be put back into the organization and not into a private owner’s pocket. Also, if revenue is less than outlay the organization will certainly go belly up; DCI and the respective corps’ should be very concerned about making money. And now you are knocking Mr. Williams? A professional who has 18 gold and 3 platinum albums; and performed with Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Ray Charles, Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, and the rest of those, what did you call them, oh yeah, limited aesthetic entertainers. Well then, with all due respect, you really are well versed on both business and musical criticism and should call Dan Acheson to become a consultant. Now, do you have any constructive ways to help DCI grow, or are you still going to throw insults from the ivory tower at all the insignificant little people down below in Branson? Edited February 1, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) mobrien: A non-profit does not mean “do not make money”; it just means that all profits have to be put back into the organization and not into a private owner’s pocket. Having been in professional performing arts non-profit management for 25 years, I kinda KNOW what "non-profit" means. And considering that the work I've produced has to compete in a major US arts market, I'm very well aware of how to strike a balance between audience appeal and artistic ambition. But it appears that YOU don't understand that the idea of having a non-profit organization is to provide services that are, by dint of their nature, non-commercial - it's about the service offered, not the "product." And the "service" that drum corps offers is about the artistic and lifeskills training that it provides the kids on the field - it's really not about you guys, no offense. Anyone who honestly thinks that with the turn of a few knobs you can turn "marching band on steroids" into the next national sensation is a few tacos short of a reality plate. If you're bored with the majority of the shows out there, then I'd submit that you're simply not really into the artform in the first place, since I don't see a material difference between the shows now and the shows 10 years ago or 20 years ago - it's still kids with horns, drums and flags. Trying to make it so that every program dumbs itself down so that Aunt Gladys knows every "song" in the program isn't going to turn it into mainstream entertainment. If you want to grow the audience for drum corps, then start more corps, since the audience is, and always has been, primarily made up of those who have marched and their friends and families. Any effort that doesn't focus on creating new forms of competition that encourage development of new corps is missing the mark. Edited February 1, 2011 by mobrien 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Having been in professional performing arts non-profit management for 25 years, I kinda KNOW what "non-profit" means. And considering that the work I've produced has to compete in a major US arts market, I'm very well aware of how to strike a balance between audience appeal and artistic ambition. But it appears that YOU don't understand that the idea of having a non-profit organization is to provide services that are, by dint of their nature, non-commercial - it's about the service offered, not the "product." And the "service" that drum corps offers is about the artistic and lifeskills training that it provides the kids on the field - it's really not about you guys, no offense. Anyone who honestly thinks that with the turn of a few knobs you can turn "marching band on steroids" into the next national sensation is a few tacos short of a reality plate. If you're bored with the majority of the shows out there, then I'd submit that you're simply not really into the artform in the first place, since I don't see a material difference between the shows now and the shows 10 years ago or 20 years ago - it's still kids with horns, drums and flags. Trying to make it so that every program dumbs itself down so that Aunt Gladys knows every "song" in the program isn't going to turn it into mainstream entertainment. If you want to grow the audience for drum corps, then start more corps, since the audience is, and always has been, primarily made up of those who have marched and their friends and families. Any effort that doesn't focus on creating new forms of competition that encourage development of new corps is missing the mark. So, you can't tell the difference between Madison 1995 and Blue Devils 2010? Interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) So, you can't tell the difference between Madison 1995 and Blue Devils 2010? Interesting.... Bad example - how about Blue Devils 1995 and 2010? (by the way, the term "material difference" means a significant change in the tools used, the overall nature of the product, or the means used to create the product - from a material standpoint, drum corps is more or less the same as it was in the 80s and 90s; horns, drums, guard equipment, football field). Almost any of the top shows from '95 could have been done again this year and no one would have batted an eyelash because they wouldn't have seemed retro. That's my point; the activity hasn't really changed as much as some here swear that it has. Maybe some of us have just gotten older and grouchier with the passage of time. Edited February 1, 2011 by mobrien 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Almost any of the top shows from '95 could have been done again this year and no one would have batted an eyelash because they wouldn't have seemed retro. That's my point; the activity hasn't really changed as much as some here swear that it has. No 1995 show could have been done again in 2010's world-class. It would have to be re-arranged for Bb/F brass, amplified pit and electronic instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) > And the "service" that drum corps offers is about the artistic and lifeskills training that it provides the kids on the field - it's really not about you guys, no offense. And DCI has not been that "training service" since their attempt to move to ESPN and their attempt at Major League Status; the only problem with that shift was that DCI did not seek enough corporate sponsorships to allow monetary compensation for "professional" performers (ie like non-profit professional symphonies). No offense, but either DCI needs to revert to that "training service" mentality (which will drop the level of performance quality) or go full steam ahead and become an outlet for professional musicians like symphonies. DCI is trying to claim both (training and major league) and that cannot work. Edited February 1, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) I am becoming a master at theses double posts Edited February 1, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Anyone who honestly thinks that with the turn of a few knobs you can turn "marching band on steroids" into the next national sensation is a few tacos short of a reality plate. If you're bored with the majority of the shows out there, then I'd submit that you're simply not really into the artform in the first place, since I don't see a material difference between the shows now and the shows 10 years ago or 20 years ago - it's still kids with horns, drums and flags. Trying to make it so that every program dumbs itself down so that Aunt Gladys knows every "song" in the program isn't going to turn it into mainstream entertainment. If you want to grow the audience for drum corps, then start more corps, since the audience is, and always has been, primarily made up of those who have marched and their friends and families. Any effort that doesn't focus on creating new forms of competition that encourage development of new corps is missing the mark. This is right on the mark. Those who dislike the current direction of drum corps are certainly entitled to that, but I think its a mistake to say that because you dont like the shows, DCI has "lost" any "mainstream" audience it once had. A) it never really had a "mainstream" audience. There were simply more corps. Were there more corps because regular people off the street thought it was awesome? No there were more corps because every church, PAL, CYO, VFW and AL post had a drum corps running and also because every kid in the country used to play an instrument. Not as much the case anymore. Look at many public high schools. Enrollments are similar, music programs are down. B) Drum Corps will never be a national sensation. Drumlines are probably as close as it will ever be with more and more sports franchises getting active drumlines to play at events. As far as mainstream society goes, ANYTHING that resembles what we do is marching band. If it has flags, drums, horns, any there is marching, then its just the band. Our friends and families will always comprise the audience. So many of the critics blame DCI's marketing strategies as well. I think they are doing pretty much what can be done to "market" drum corps. You can bring in Coke, Pepsi, Nike, AT&T and BMW's combined Marketing teams and I firmly believe there would be little to no difference in the drum corps audience. I do think the pro stadium is an awesome thing and a great experience for young people. I have had many the students in the band and indoor units I direct march in DCI and WGI and the venue is a huge part of what the like. I think a good college will be less costly and probably just as effective so I wouldnt mind if we left the pro venues, but I do see why its a good thing to be there as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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