ybooby Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I find it hard to agree with the size issue. I was never in the largest corps out there. Yet summer after summer we were top 3 with a solid hunt for gold, and intimidated a lot of our competitors big and small. We took gold in 07, and were the smallest corps in the top 4. Winning in DCI isn't easy, nor should it be. It's not impossible for the small corps to do well against the 'big boys'. Larger corps have drawbacks that work against them. More feet to clean, horns to correct, and drums to muddy the sound. They take a little longer usually to work those issues out depending on show material, and staff. There are just too many variables even now to putting out a solid product that the judges, and audience will react to. A big corps isn't going to show up at finals, and walk away a champion. Looking at gold medalists back to 2003 when division 2 corps started getting really big Esperanza won over a larger Patriots, ECJ won in 2005 over a larger Spartans, 2006 Academy shook everyone's world, 2007 Spartans win over a larger Surf, and Teal Sound, 2008 SCVC wins over a bigger BDB. 2009 BDB takes it, and in 2010 repeats due to a very successful group of staff, and kids. There just isn't a history of biggest=gold without fail. Thus I don't see it being an issue. I have to disagree. Yes, the corps that won those years were not always the biggest corps, but they were still significantly larger than most open class corps. So while the largest corps may not always win, the top 4 corps are always the corps with the most members. Not taking anything away from the kids in these groups, but when the judges hear a nice full hornline they are going to get the points. When Open Class was created which corps were at the top ever year? BDB SCVC Teal Sound..aka the big corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madrid Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 No, it shouldn't be an issue. Along side the above mentioned references, also take a look at the 4th place Oregon Crusaders and the 5th place Teal Sound from the 2008 season. Teal was almost 3 times the size of OC that season. Quality > Quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilSCV Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 True, Mr. Madrid... OC had quality... but it's so nice that this year they have both quantity AND quality :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRevo Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Nah...I wasn't inferring that they were comparable. I haven't seen enough smaller corps this year to qualify that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Spartans got Bronze with 63 members in 2010. I think 63 is on the "smaller" side. Edited June 28, 2011 by BrassClef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirefenix Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I have to disagree. Yes, the corps that won those years were not always the biggest corps, but they were still significantly larger than most open class corps. So while the largest corps may not always win, the top 4 corps are always the corps with the most members. Not taking anything away from the kids in these groups, but when the judges hear a nice full hornline they are going to get the points. When Open Class was created which corps were at the top ever year? BDB SCVC Teal Sound..aka the big corps Not the smallest yes, but still fairly small. Yes a big clean corps will have an edge but the judges are educated people. They understand the factors that make a top corps, and I've never felt that they unfairly rewarded large groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahler444 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I have to disagree. Yes, the corps that won those years were not always the biggest corps, but they were still significantly larger than most open class corps. So while the largest corps may not always win, the top 4 corps are always the corps with the most members. Not taking anything away from the kids in these groups, but when the judges hear a nice full hornline they are going to get the points. When Open Class was created which corps were at the top ever year? BDB SCVC Teal Sound..aka the big corps Okay, I thought I would wade into this conversation again. I think we are oversimplifying the issue here. I think just as big as a factor is age. For instance, I would venture that the B groups for BD and SCV both have an average age of around college, so maybe somewhere between 19 and 20. No, I don't have data to back this up, but I do have firsthand experience with standing right beside them at finals last year, and I can tell you from looking at those kids that the majority (at least last year) was getting close to age out. There's an obvious and simple explanation for this phenomenon: these kids want to march with the world class group, and one path to that is to get into the BD or SCV system and try to move up to the mothership. I would guess that last year our average age was around 18, and this year I bet our average age has dropped a little. Now, what's the difference between 18 and 19 or 20? Well, not much in years, but in most cases, the difference is one kid is just graduating or still in high school, and the other has had a year or two of college marching band. Now I know, college marching band is not drum corp, but in most cases it is a lot closer than high school marching band. I can only go off of my personal experience in that matter. I came from a high school that did not march competitively. Going straight to scouts would have been nearly impossible from the visual side for me straight out of high school. After two years of college marching band, my visual package was not as much of a liability for me. I can't imagine I am the only one that went through that transition. Now, having said that, I do somewhat have to agree with the benefits of having a bigger hornline. You don't have to have as many heros, and you don't have as many gaps in the sound from a staging perspective. Obviously these are just my opinions, and thanks for reading my rambling outlook here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Should size of corps be a consideration among judges? It's not on the sheets yet it seems when smaller corps put on an equally well executed good show as the ones with 130 members, they can't pull the scores. Are they inadvertently being discriminated against due to size? No. Usually, a larger corps generates a larger effect, so if they execute equally well, the larger corps will have an edge in GE. Should DCI revisit the number requirement for Open Class? Will having the SAME corps winning each year due to the fact that they carry the same numbers as a World sized corps hurt the smaller programs? I don't know. Perhaps the smaller corps will get bigger. Perhaps the bigger corps will get smaller. Maybe if the same corps wins open class repeatedly with a full corps, they will move up to world-class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Now, having said that, I do somewhat have to agree with the benefits of having a bigger hornline. You don't have to have as many heros, and you don't have as many gaps in the sound from a staging perspective. At the same time, though, a larger hornline requires more people to play in tune and with proper timing in order to achieve the desired end results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntheMood Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I have to disagree. Yes, the corps that won those years were not always the biggest corps, but they were still significantly larger than most open class corps. So while the largest corps may not always win, the top 4 corps are always the corps with the most members. Not taking anything away from the kids in these groups, but when the judges hear a nice full hornline they are going to get the points. When Open Class was created which corps were at the top ever year? BDB SCVC Teal Sound..aka the big corps Nothing against you, but your last sentence is what makes me mad about the OC Div.. not doing more for people to understand the history of the OC Div. In the DCI Era, OC/Class A held their first finals in Philly 1975 ....BDB,SCVC,Teal Sound and others were not around then. Size back then was not an issue nor should it be today.....BITD when making top 25 in World/OC class was something the Glassmen made top 25 in World/Open class with 49 members..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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