crfrey71 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 [quote name='TRacer' timestamp='1309706714' post='3024123' BD: The soloists were off last night, and at one point the synth & amps drowned out the nifty tenor feature taking place on the 50. The snares had a tough time with their "strut & play" feature which was dirty, and I am not a fan the University of Monkey Drumming technique. BD plays loud, but then again so does BK who unfortunately was not on this leg of the tour. General comment for all corps: turn down the synths!! Where was the opening solo last night? Was the person sick and not at the show??? First thing I noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 First, cynical and rude? No, I can be cynical and rude. If you'd like, I can give you an example, but I won't right now. My comments about the other corps' music were MY OPINION. SCV is one of my personal favorite corps! Do I like the music.....no. Do I think the music is memorable.....sorry. BD is probably the best drum corps year in and year out as far as talent level. I believe they are the best marchers in the activity. Do I enjoy this year's music? No. Frog in a blender. I apologize if it came across as bashing a corps. Nope, just dislike their musical selections, personally. Let me put my music opinion in a more PC way: DCI 2003 - Phantom did Canon....Opener and closer. The next two years I see, hear and judge a ton of bands doing "lifts" of those two, note for note in some cases. Imitation is the highest form of flattery>>>>>>> Methinks so. Good luck to ALL of the corps out there. Stay safe, continue improving and have a great summer. Yes, you've already been cynical and rude, and no, I wouldn't like for you to continue. IMO, you've already provided an example of such behavior, and I thank you for choosing not to provide another. That was the sole reason for my response to your posts, I'm hoping you'll curb the mean-spirited comments about hard working corps members (and their productions) that aren't identified as the Phantom Regiment. A I stated in my response, I respect your right to your opinion, as well as your right to express it, my issue is with how you chose to do it. Thanks for the apology in regard to... "if it came across as bashing a corps," it really did, but I'll assume it was unintentional. With that behind us, I do appreciate the movement we're experiencing in scores as the season unfolds. All of these corps are spectacular, loaded with incredible amounts of talent in areas of performance, program design, and instructional and support staff. Shifts in placement/scores only surprise us because we're not used to it happening often (if ever), not because there really is NO WAY that one top 8 corps' guard or horn line could possibly beat another corps' guard or horn line, even if the comparison is likely influenced by history as much as by what we're observing in the present. Beyond simply having our favorite corps that we personally champion, we also have strong mental models of how good we think all of these corps are (or should be), as well as what we perceive to be reasonable spreads between them. When that mental model is challenged, we immediately jump to "something must be wrong," or that there is some logical (or illogical) reason other than the possibility that one corps could actually be getting stronger, while another is not progressing at the same rate, and therefore competitively defeated that night. Remember, at the end of the day (season), the spread between these corps typically comes down to tenths of a point, rather than "horrible" vs. excellent. I really believe that in the real world (the world outside of this niche activity), if performance and program effect assessments were done by qualified professionals that know their craft in performance art (experts in areas such as professional dance, theater, music performance professors or trained ensemble music critics, etc.), but are nonetheless foreign to the corps activity, we would routinely see momentum shifts in scores throughout the season. This is not implying that our current adjudicators are not qualified or professional, they certainly are, but it would be interesting to routinely gain the objective and subjective opinions of those foreign to the activity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) You only need to know the rules to understand what determined the winner. ). Appreciation, enjoyment, understanding -- these are not the same thing. Convincing people what makes a show worthy of their respect is one thing. But people who try to force other people to enjoy things are idiots. I think I have a pretty good grasp of the understanding of the current judging system rules. For example, I understand what the phrase " complexity and demand " mean.... and " section and show integration " mean in the captions. What I have NOT figured out ( after many years in the activity ) is how judges apply these totally subjective concepts in judgment comparison to other Corps. I probably never will. I know when a goal is scored in hockey. I know that whoever puts the puck in the net the most in a game, " wins ". I likewise know that determining " the winner " is much more subjective in Ice Skating than in Hockey for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that there is more than 2 teams competing. I can appreciate ice skating and can understand some of the basics that go into the determination as to which was " better ", but like Drum Corps, which show I appreciate the performance talent on display is much different that which show performance was enjoyed more. For example, it was easy for me to come to the conclusion that the Blue Devils should have won last year. They had a phenomenal guard to this amateur's eyes, great performance execution in all Corps sections. I really understood and appreciated the performance and their " winning " was justified in my amateurish evaluation. But was this my favorite show that was " enjoyed " and " liked " the most by me ? Not at all. And I do agree with you that people who tell others what they should " enjoy " are not acting very intelligently. Life doesn't work that way. Edited July 3, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 i have read several times the term "tear" used in regards to PR's ballad. i've not seen this used before. will someone explain to me what it means? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeldrum Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 i have read several times the term "tear" used in regards to PR's ballad. i've not seen this used before. will someone explain to me what it means? thanks It refers to the drop of saline based water that runs down one's cheek when hearing the beautiful ballads played by Phantom's hornline..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) i have read several times the term "tear" used in regards to PR's ballad. i've not seen this used before. will someone explain to me what it means? thanks When one section of the corps is not playing the same correct time as another section of the corps. For example, if the lower brass is "rushing" a phrase and gets a count or two ahead of the upper brass. Or if the front ensemble is playing musically behind, tempo wise, from the brass and/or battery. This tends to be a bit common early season as the show is new to the members, changes come hard and fast, and the members are still not quite confident with how to perform the show (field placement is typically a HUGE factor in ensemble tears, as acoustic physics come into play and at this point I doubt listening/watching points have been clearly defined for every set yet). I wasn't at the show and can't explain exactly how/where Phantom tore in their show, but I hope my general explanation with better help you understand the term "tear" in relation to a corps' performance. *edit - also known as phasing Edited July 3, 2011 by perc2100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 When one section of the corps is not playing the same correct time as another section of the corps. For example, if the lower brass is "rushing" a phrase and gets a count or two ahead of the upper brass. Or if the front ensemble is playing musically behind, tempo wise, from the brass and/or battery. This tends to be a bit common early season as the show is new to the members, changes come hard and fast, and the members are still not quite confident with how to perform the show (field placement is typically a HUGE factor in ensemble tears, as acoustic physics come into play and at this point I doubt listening/watching points have been clearly defined for every set yet). I wasn't at the show and can't explain exactly how/where Phantom tore in their show, but I hope my general explanation with better help you understand the term "tear" in relation to a corps' performance. *edit - also known as phasing thanks for the explanation. understand completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 It refers to the drop of saline based water that runs down one's cheek when hearing the beautiful ballads played by Phantom's hornline..... No doubt, my comment will raise a huge stink and has nothing to do with how the piece is performed, but A Time For Us is a sappy piece of schmaltz. I hated that music the first time I heard it in the movie and I still hate it. I have wondered who picked this piece in relation to the other music of the show. On second thought, I bet I could guess. The show would be so much better if this piece was replaced. It drags down the momentum of the show. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Directorofbands Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Yes, you've already been cynical and rude, and no, I wouldn't like for you to continue. IMO, you've already provided an example of such behavior, and I thank you for choosing not to provide another. That was the sole reason for my response to your posts, I'm hoping you'll curb the mean-spirited comments about hard working corps members (and their productions) that aren't identified as the Phantom Regiment. >>>>>Okay, mean-spirited comments about hard working corps members? WTF? I NEVER said anything about the members. Don't put words in my mouth, I can do that all by myself. Comments about their productions? Be disappointed. If I like it, I'll say why, if I don't, I have the right to say why also. Thant's not an attack on the kids, it's an opinion on the programming choices of the creative staff. Don't try to confuse the two. Reread my original post and tell me I'm attacking the members. Really? I think we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. If not, I can get cynical and rude so at least I'll feel like I'll deserve your comments.<<<<< A I stated in my response, I respect your right to your opinion, as well as your right to express it, my issue is with how you chose to do it. Thanks for the apology in regard to... "if it came across as bashing a corps," it really did, but I'll assume it was unintentional. >>>>>Reread again - Not bashing a corps, just their programming. I will have seen the G8 live 5 times by finals and won't see them for the first time until July 17th. I'm shelling out About $2k on tickets, travel and food to see these shows. Guess what, if I don't like a program, I have PAID for the right to voice my opinion. Whatever the case, the corps gets my money!<<<<< With that behind us, I do appreciate the movement we're experiencing in scores as the season unfolds. All of these corps are spectacular, loaded with incredible amounts of talent in areas of performance, program design, and instructional and support staff. Shifts in placement/scores only surprise us because we're not used to it happening often (if ever), not because there really is NO WAY that one top 8 corps' guard or horn line could possibly beat another corps' guard or horn line, even if the comparison is likely influenced by history as much as by what we're observing in the present. >>>>> Agreed. The scoring juggling is a welcomed departure to the standard "slotting and ride the score escalator up together". Beyond simply having our favorite corps that we personally champion, we also have strong mental models of how good we think all of these corps are (or should be), as well as what we perceive to be reasonable spreads between them. When that mental model is challenged, we immediately jump to "something must be wrong," or that there is some logical (or illogical) reason other than the possibility that one corps could actually be getting stronger, while another is not progressing at the same rate, and therefore competitively defeated that night. Remember, at the end of the day (season), the spread between these corps typically comes down to tenths of a point, rather than "horrible" vs. excellent. >>>>>You commented about my comment about the tear that PR had. Look, been there. An ensemble tear can destroy a corps score, as it should. It should effect every caption. You want the truth: I really don't care too much about placements and scores. Scoring is subjective and I'd guarantee that I could pick a double panel for any given show and get substantially different results in placements, especially in subcaptions.<<<<< I really believe that in the real world (the world outside of this niche activity), if performance and program effect assessments were done by qualified professionals that know their craft in performance art (experts in areas such as professional dance, theater, music performance professors or trained ensemble music critics, etc.), but are nonetheless foreign to the corps activity, we would routinely see momentum shifts in scores throughout the season. This is not implying that our current adjudicators are not qualified or professional, they certainly are, but it would be interesting to routinely gain the objective and subjective opinions of those foreign to the activity. >>>>>An interesting idea. An expert coming in with unbiased opinion could be very neat. However, I still think we have to listen to the people who really pay the bills: The Ticketholder.<<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Directorofbands Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 No doubt, my comment will raise a huge stink and has nothing to do with how the piece is performed, but A Time For Us is a sappy piece of schmaltz. I hated that music the first time I heard it in the movie and I still hate it. I have wondered who picked this piece in relation to the other music of the show. On second thought, I bet I could guess. The show would be so much better if this piece was replaced. It drags down the momentum of the show. I totally agree. It's a definite momentum buster. Either replace it (although I might leave the short quote of it in after the Prokofiev as a transitional piece.) or rearrange it, using other source materials to add interest. Also, you have to have a real "clap here, dummy" moment after the hit. Although I generally like the idea of staying as close as possible to the source music, if PR keeps it, they need to do some creative arranging to make this piece work. Right now, it's like a dead fish...... It just lies there and get stinkier the longer we go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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