jplattSCV Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 One gripe I constantly hear from some fans is that DCI isn't a "youth" activity anymore. There aren't "neighborhood" corps that take in kids, teach them to play and be disciplined, etc. The other major gripe I hear (often from the same segment of fans) is about the G8. We all know the arguments, no need to rehash them here. But I dream of a day when the G8 is not needed anymore. Not dead or replaced, just not needed. Why? Because we have 12-16 corps in WC left. I know what you're thinking...but hear me out. Now these remaining corps are each a powerhouse. Every single year is a mystery as to who will win. A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. No longer are we sitting around talking about BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year. Now I know what a lot of you are thinking. Not very many corps. Where will kids get the experience you knew BITD? This isn't to say that there shouldn't be a 2nd tier of drum corps (perhaps a feeder corps system?). But times have changed. Where are kids getting their experience? Marching Band. Marching bands these days ARE the neighborhood corps of days past. There's at least one in every town and they do exactly what the corps of yesteryear did. They take kids and teach them to play and to march and to be disciplined. Ask anyone who has ever been in marching band or had a kid in marching band or worked with a marching band; kids in band are some of the best kids in school. Not because band draws in the "good" kids, but because it fosters those good attributes. Isn't that what most older fans miss from the neighborhood drum corps? So isn't it time that we let the past be the past? Respect it, remember it, but it's time to move on. Kids across the country are getting solid educations and get to aspire to compete at a truly pro level. And as a fan, I for one know that I would love to attend a finals night where it's anyone's game. What say you, DCP? Maybe not all three, but 2 of the 3 Cadeviliers will be in the top 3. And likely they will constitute all three of the top spots. The best we can hope for is a collection of darkhorses with Crown currently leading the way IMO. Other than that, I think I am with you in spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griego4m Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 *waits for HOWDY to chime in* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriTroop Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The ONLY scenario in which I can imagine this happening is this: 1. "World Class" drum corps becomes "collegiate drum corps" and is restricted to members who are post-secondary from ages 17 (for early graduates) to 22. This circuit would operate very much like current WC drum corps. 2. A high-school level competitive circuit emerges as the "feeder corps" idea. This circuit would be for ages 14-19. The season would be shorter (start later), would be more locally organized to cut back on expenses (lower tuition!), and it would focus on the skills needed to compete at the college level. You could "age out" of this circuit and continue into the collegiate circuit. 3. There would be no restriction on how many of these High School and Collegiate corps can exist. 4. There would be shows dedicated to the HS circuit and shows dedicated to the COL circuit, but there could be mixed "showcase" shows throughout the season. Other benefits to this scenario: people could "age out" at 19 OR 22 less corps hopping more parity due to restrictions of age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The system described by the OP is pretty close to what we actually have now. In my opinion, we do have 17 really strong drum corps.... maybe not "powerhouses," but I think almost all would agree, it is the best 17 as a whole we have ever had. (If it is unclear which 17 I am speaking of, the 13-17 place corps this year will likely come from Spirit, Glassmen, Troopers, Academy, Colts, or Crossmen). Not to diss any of the other corps like Pacific Crest, Pioneer, Jersey Surf etc... but these 17 truly are DCI. They aren't just the current top 17, or the top 17 from last year, they are nearly the top 17 corps of the DCI era. Obviously Academy is the historical exception, and to some extent Colts... but since 1972, only 27th Lancers, Star, Bridgemen, and Kingsmen (mostly just because of their championship) deserve to be in the same conversation with this current group. The reason it is impossible for Crossmen to win next year is because their staff/design team/member talent cannot reach "Cadeveliers" level in just one year. But, there is no reason why them or any other corps in this group could not ascend in the next few years. Just 7-8 years ago Crown would have ranked near the bottom of this group in terms of historical competitiveness, but look where they are now. And on the high school marching band side of things.... yes, you are right... they are preparing kids for high-level drum corps better than ever before. So I don't think there needs to be a radical shift to make this activity better. I do wish there were a few more "second tier" corps so kids that don't have access to decent high school competitive marching band can still learn the needed skills... but we don't need dozens of them as we had in the past. I believe the competition at the top is getting better every year. I'll go back to my example of the Crossmen, who just a few years ago was a regular finalist. Have they gotten much worse?.... to my eyes and ears, they have not. It just that a 9th place show 8 years ago is now only good for 16th-17th. At the very top in the late 90's - early 00's it was very lonely. After Star left and Phantom declined a bit... it really was just the big 3, plus SCV with the occasional really good year (like '99). But just outside them.... look at the 5th place corps for those years (usually Glassmen or BAC). Did anyone really think they had championship worthy shows/performance levels? Compare that to last year's 5th place show (Cadets). My point is that although the same 3 corps are still just about the best year in and year out, more and more corps are beginning to break into the realm of "contenders." Contrary to the belief of many, I see the activity getting stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The ONLY scenario in which I can imagine this happening is this: 1. "World Class" drum corps becomes "collegiate drum corps" and is restricted to members who are post-secondary from ages 17 (for early graduates) to 22. This circuit would operate very much like current WC drum corps. 2. A high-school level competitive circuit emerges as the "feeder corps" idea. This circuit would be for ages 14-19. The season would be shorter (start later), would be more locally organized to cut back on expenses (lower tuition!), and it would focus on the skills needed to compete at the college level. You could "age out" of this circuit and continue into the collegiate circuit. 3. There would be no restriction on how many of these High School and Collegiate corps can exist. 4. There would be shows dedicated to the HS circuit and shows dedicated to the COL circuit, but there could be mixed "showcase" shows throughout the season. Other benefits to this scenario: people could "age out" at 19 OR 22 less corps hopping more parity due to restrictions of age I actually like this idea. In terms of corps membership... (not talking about show design etc.)...IMO it is usually two things which hold a corps back: 1. lower talent/experience level 2. younger group...This idea Terri has seems to address both of these. WHICH corps would get to be the collegiate level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Just 7-8 years ago Crown would have ranked near the bottom of this group in terms of historical competitiveness, but look where they are now. Ok. 2009 2nd 2010 4th This year ? Who knows.. maybe higher, maybe lower, maybe the same. We'll see. Edited July 5, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriTroop Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I actually like this idea. In terms of corps membership... (not talking about show design etc.)...IMO it is usually two things which hold a corps back: 1. lower talent/experience level 2. younger group...This idea Terri has seems to address both of these. WHICH corps would get to be the collegiate level? This would be the sticky wicket. Logic tells me that there is a division naturally occurring in the world of drum corps between WC and OC, but that doesn't mean all OC should be the HS circuit and all WC should be collegiate. I'm not about to get into particulars, though. Nope. Not going there. Let someone else start that disaster of a thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirebird Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Let me get this straight... you believe that getting rid of Open Class and World Class 17th-23rd would allow Academy (2010's 14th place) to place 3rd this year and win next year? Because lots of marching bands exist? We can definitely make a list of reasons why Academy is not in 3rd place. The existence of Pioneer and Teal Sound is not going to come in very high on that list. I'm talking about a number of corps all being top 6 quality. I am in no way saying that lower corps could not, one day, be a part of the WC competition. The dream is that we have more then a handful of corps competing for a title every year. Wouldn't it be nice to have a world where corps like Academy and Teal and Pioneer are competing every season at BD/Cadet/Cavalier level. I'm not saying that the corps you mentioned can't place high because of marching band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirebird Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Approx. 80% of the DCI Titles have been one by The Cavaliers ( Cadets, Devs, Cavaliers ) since 1979. Every decade or so, some other Corps wins the DCI Title before falling way back or disappearing altogether. My comments were directed to your apparent belief that there is a surprise most years as to who wins the DCI Title, quite apart from these 3 Corps. However, as the historical data seems to demonstrate, the " surprise " is when one of the Cavaliers does not win the DCI Title in a given year. Once gain, almost like clockwork, here we are in July, 2011, and the Cavaliers are well positioned to win it all once again. Can some other Corps besides the Cavaliers win the DCI this year ? Sure. But they'll have to top not 1 or 2 of the Cavaliers to do so, but all three. I do think it's possible. But I'd be " surprised " if any other Corps did, and I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on it. Would you ? Who do you predict will win the DCI Title this year by the way ? I'm predicting The Cadets. But perhaps, it'll be the Cavs or Devs ( Crown, maybe a longshot. ) There is no surprise. I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion from my OP. I'm proposing DCI and it's fans think of ways to get the activity to a level where several corps are likely to win it all in any given year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirebird Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 The system described by the OP is pretty close to what we actually have now. In my opinion, we do have 17 really strong drum corps.... maybe not "powerhouses," but I think almost all would agree, it is the best 17 as a whole we have ever had. (If it is unclear which 17 I am speaking of, the 13-17 place corps this year will likely come from Spirit, Glassmen, Troopers, Academy, Colts, or Crossmen). Not to diss any of the other corps like Pacific Crest, Pioneer, Jersey Surf etc... but these 17 truly are DCI. They aren't just the current top 17, or the top 17 from last year, they are nearly the top 17 corps of the DCI era. Obviously Academy is the historical exception, and to some extent Colts... but since 1972, only 27th Lancers, Star, Bridgemen, and Kingsmen (mostly just because of their championship) deserve to be in the same conversation with this current group. The reason it is impossible for Crossmen to win next year is because their staff/design team/member talent cannot reach "Cadeveliers" level in just one year. But, there is no reason why them or any other corps in this group could not ascend in the next few years. Just 7-8 years ago Crown would have ranked near the bottom of this group in terms of historical competitiveness, but look where they are now. And on the high school marching band side of things.... yes, you are right... they are preparing kids for high-level drum corps better than ever before. So I don't think there needs to be a radical shift to make this activity better. I do wish there were a few more "second tier" corps so kids that don't have access to decent high school competitive marching band can still learn the needed skills... but we don't need dozens of them as we had in the past. I believe the competition at the top is getting better every year. I'll go back to my example of the Crossmen, who just a few years ago was a regular finalist. Have they gotten much worse?.... to my eyes and ears, they have not. It just that a 9th place show 8 years ago is now only good for 16th-17th. At the very top in the late 90's - early 00's it was very lonely. After Star left and Phantom declined a bit... it really was just the big 3, plus SCV with the occasional really good year (like '99). But just outside them.... look at the 5th place corps for those years (usually Glassmen or BAC). Did anyone really think they had championship worthy shows/performance levels? Compare that to last year's 5th place show (Cadets). My point is that although the same 3 corps are still just about the best year in and year out, more and more corps are beginning to break into the realm of "contenders." Contrary to the belief of many, I see the activity getting stronger. This is what I was getting at with the high school band part. I'm not proposing the elimination of all corps but a top group, but the marketing of a top-tier league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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