bad sound

[ravedodger]

Back to the original question--sounds like you've got a problem similar to mine. I'm a trumpet player. I was away from my horn a few years and went back to playing as a smoker--though I quit almost two years ago now.

I am able to fix shallowness in lower tones when I:

1. practice long, low tones 1/2 hour to 2 hours in a sitting

2. when halfway though a long, low tone session, I feel more control in the muscles of the lips. Then I am more able to adjust where and how much firmness in the lips that I use--I firm the muscles between lips and where they are attached to my face, I can better decrease the airiness in my tone.

3. I also attempt to use more diaphragm pressure as opposed to rib-cage pressure, while at the same time trying to create back-pressure in my throat and oral cavities (which creates a bullfrog effect by expanding the throat sometimes beyond the width of my head--your tongue tends to get out of the way automatically also, because you're also letting your "jowls" sag at the same time) This is very difficult to do in the lower register as the mind thinks that less air is needed to play in the lower register. More air is needed, not necessarily for volume, but for tone quality.

4. I focus on the sound of the tone. I begin with one of my sweet, dark notes that sounds good on my horn and descend chromatically matching each note to the same tone quality as the first note. By doing this, I have been able to create two overtones in the overtone series from the horn's low Ab all the way of to C in the staff. You'll know when you do this, as it creates louder volume and fills your head with the sound. Once you've done this, you have truly found the "center" of your horn. BTW, I have done this on a 1995-ish model 43 Strad trumpet, my 1991 3-valve Kanstul soprano, and a 3-valve Dynasty mellophone--I haven't accomplished this on my 2-valve King bari, yet. So I wouldn't say that is is the quality of the horn but how the player approaches the horn. I'm sure Tony Hawk can grab a K-Mart Variflex board and still get some major air on a ramp.

Just doing long tones without a goal in mind is like golfing. You can't just swing at the ball over and over expecting to get better, you have to discect what you're doing while in the middle of your swing in order to become better.

I'm not a brass expert, but these things have helped me, when I have found time to really practice. Hope it helps. :)

Edited July 18, 2003 by ravedodger

[ravedodger]

oops.

Edited July 18, 2003 by ravedodger

[demobaritoneboy]

have you made sure the valves are in the correct place (i.e. third valve in 1st valve slot)

one time i gave my horn a bath and got the valves mixed up and i thought i put them in right, it worked okay, but it was really hard to play low and the tone was horrible. i realized i needed to switch the valves after one of my slides came out and i could see that the holes weren't matching up exactly. i switched the valves and my horn worked perfectly.

maybe you have the same problem.

-demo

[ravedodger]

well, i'm playing a G bari, and i just can't get a good sound in the lower register (like a low G). i sound really airy, and i can't get a nice round sound past like a mezzo forte :( . and in the show, i play that low G in the opening chord and it's suppose to be like at fortissimo. could it be an adjustment thing from going to a G horn? i mean, i've got pretty good tone in the low register on a Bb bari. any help would be GREATLY appreciated

Just curious. Has your sound improved? What has worked for you? Another suggetion would be to try to put a little more lower lip into the cup of the mouthpiece. That can also help to fatten the sound.

[kalijah]

Dave wrote:

More air is needed, not necessarily for volume, but for tone quality.

This is a harmful myth, air speed is DIRECTLY propotional to volume ONLY. Not range or tone quality.

Telling players that more air is needed is almost always inviting them to learn how to be an inefficient player. As tone develops so does efficiency and LESS air will be required for a given volume.

Read my other posts.

Darryl Jones

CV brass caption leader 01-03

[ravedodger]

As I previously stated, I am not a brass expert. I don't believe that there is an exact science, based only on my experience. I noted that the above things are what helped me. I don't have any kind of music degree, I never had private lessons, nor do I pay attention to what is written in the so-called technique books, a lot of what I learned, I did learn in drum corps. I discovered my own technique by listening to quality players(Maurice Andre, Winton Marsalis, and un-named players in many recordings), except the part about achieving overtones--I've never heard anyone play overtones, except me. I had always heard of them, but had never heard them. I don't feel that my comments were incorrect in the least. I believe that beginning with using more air helps in diaphragm development and, eventually, less air, indeed, is needed. In the end, the muscles become developed and one can achieve efficiency.

I would like to hear more commentary on my technique. I'm always open to advice so I can better myself. I was actually waiting for someone to blast what I wrote, and I am suprised that I haven't had more feedback.

Edited August 16, 2003 by ravedodger

[ravedodger]

BTW, I finally got the first overtone on my bari this week.

[jamoline]

I dunno, if you want feedback so much.. even now.. umm..

overtones.. well, someone feel free to correct me.. you get overtones when you have more than one voice going, and they are so in tune with each other that their soundwaves lock that you can hear notes (the overtone series) sort of shimmering above the actual notes you're playing.. an individual can't "play" overtones..

as for the airiness part, you made a good note on using your diaphragm. sound problems usually have more to do technique and air than they do with mouthpiece sizes..

not quite sure what you're talking about in changing your embouchure

"when halfway though a long, low tone session" to create a better sound, but um, just always have it set correctly. changing your lips also tends to change your pitch or its tuning, so just make sure it stays steady and consistent.

ok. if you need any more feedback or anything, please feel free to let me know. I'm having trouble sleeping tonight so I'm just going through the forums I usually never read, but ah, PM me and we can chat..

[BADBRASS]

Maybe he means he actually played through the center of the horn and it was in tune so the horn just rang for the first time?

[ravedodger]

Nope--I mean overtones coming from the horn itself. I've played in tune for years. I even played professionally in the army as an OJT without going to the school of music, and have had my own big band. I've heard overtones come from hornlines before, even a hornline that I was in. I also know the difference between edge and overtones. I'm talking overtones coming from one instrument. The first time I heard an overtone, I was doodling on my beat-up circa-1938 Conn cornet. And I don't think that anyone would say that I have ever had poor tone--my tone quality has always been my strong suit(except, of course my lower range after I started smoking). My fingers are another story.

Edited August 21, 2003 by ravedodger