An odd observation about DCA...

[Jeff Ream]

I just want to see a DCA finals outside of the Northeast...I thought North Carolina made a very good offer. I believe that is one area where both circuits have now fallen into the one location for finals instead of moving it around to attract new audience members...the old...circus comes to town thing.

The NC idea would have killed DCA. When the other regions prove they can draw finals crowd Luke the northeast can, by all means do it.

But they can't yet.

[Hrothgar15]

*shrug*

To me, drum corps is an art form, like the symphony orchestra, or musical theater. The age of the performers has absolutely zero bearing on my enjoyment. Never once while viewing a performance have I ever considered the age of the players.

I'd love to see a DCA show some time as I haven't had the luxury yet. A lot of those G hornlines sound better to me (from what I can tell on recordings) than some of the multikey hornlines I've heard in DCI, which a lot of times just leave me flat.

[MelloHorn13]

I look at it this way: DCA thrives where DCI lacks, vice versa. Keep the activity as a whole balanced.

[Mephistopheles]

Was that the session held on the grassy knoll?

HH

Nope.

[danielray]

How is it possible that you are still not banned? Good Grief boy!

How is suggesting that someone is overweight considered an insult? It is simply an observation. An individual's weight is not a disability, but is something fully in their control.

It is primarily related to lack of exercise and food choice, more specifically processed foods. Just yesterday a guy that I marched was commenting on FB about how he lost about 30 lbs by doing nothing but removing high-fructose corn syrup from his diet. It is that simple.

Edited August 7, 2011 by danielray

[Jeff Ream]

You are so cute when you are insistent. I like it.

No. It's on DCP...somewhere. It was in a thread last summer. Jeff Ream participated in it. I think we both came to the conclusion about attendance for both DCA and DCI but that was before last year's DCA finals. Where we disagreed is what this meant. Jeff was and is very passionate against the show concepts and the synths, amps, singing, featured soloists on mics through the whole show. He hates that. I think it's a particular corps choice and not something instilled in DCI's directives through judging and rewarding. We both came together on the 2008 Regiment show, however...but I digress.

jeff is anti show concepts that turn off paying fans, and the way A&E is used and "rewarded". Jeff was against because he saw the issues beaten to death on here coming because he's lived them...and still lives them in the band world.Even attended a clinic this weekend with one of DCI's top percussion people who admitted "yeah the judges kinda gloss over it. They're afraid of it"

Now, I would point you to Jeff's most recent point in this thread. DCI and DCA finding common ground.

This thread pointed to G Horns, Amps, etc. as the "odd observation." I contend the major difference is if I am 8 or 80 I can march DCA. The same is not true in DCI. And that, sir, is the major difference...not amps, not G horns...don't some DCA corps march Bbs? I thought they did. Huh. I could be wrong. No DCA corps/shows out my way. I feel like other folks must feel about DCI. It sure is a massive country, huh?

Oh yeah...you asked about data and analysis, like I had it on an Excel spreadsheet of something, with lines and pie charts or something. Nah, I just looked at the numbers on the thread and did some simple math stuff and showed both circuits trending pretty much flat with ups and downs. I also concluded that Indy hasn't proved to be better attendance wise than Orlando was and that DCA attendance was pretty flat over the past 10 years or so.

Are you arguing with these conclusions? Is there something I'm missing? Do I really have to spend more time trying to dig up the data from last year. Jeff and I both agree, DCI has not been consistent about sharing attendance data. I have it on good authority, Finals Night 2009 was about 15,500 paid, but DCI would dispute that today.

Again...if you disagree with the conclusions, I'll spend some time this weekend and dig it all up and learn to use the seach functionality on DCP. But, if you don't agree, what's your analysis say?

And, by the way...you went right away to # of corps....# of participants as a measure of organizational health. While I would argue this is a factor it is barely a key one. Paid butts in seats is the optimal measure of long term survival and more than that...total revenue in the gate. Because with enough dollars...all corps can not only thrive, but survive. And the only thing that will create more corps and more participants is more $$$.

So, are you off it yet? Is your single white glove lowered from your left hand...or do you still feel the need to duel?

Let me know. I have a Sunday afternoon with nothing planned. It would help if you sent me $50 for my efforts though.

ya know how I tell you not to speak about DCA like you think you know when you don't? Same goes for how I feel.

[Jeff Ream]

I've seen them... young or old, they're a bit tubby compared to DCI members.

this may be your lowest post ever. And that's saying something.

[Jeff Ream]

Wow...just wow. Semantics from both sides. You obviously don't disagree. Nice. I asked if you'd like me to dig it up. It will be Sunday afternoon sometime. And I drag Jeff into lots of things that he doesn't like.

Let's face it. I blew up your little thread simply because it's not about G horns or amps or anything else. DCA has an advantage. Anyone...mom and dad and their kids can march together and share that experience. Do you know how cool that is? Do you even fathom how awesome an opportunity that is? Don't you...or any of you DCA folks EVER take that for granted. DCA is family. It is a very different experience. DCI is like touring. The bonds are built differently...more fraternal in nature. Both circuits face their challenges and the chief being the insular nature of each.

But, it's not about amps or Bb trumpets. It's about a 23 year old who went to the military to serve his/her country and would like to march a year in drum corps. DCA can get him/her....DCI doesn't stand a chance.

So, horns down now?

and Jeff corrects you when you're wrong

[Jeff Ream]

They do exist...and you can see them on Sunday if I remember. Send me a PM on Sunday afternoon and I'll start the query. But, I do want to clarify my claim. To me...the number of corps isn't as important as the numbers in the seats. You can have 60 corps and no one in the stands. You can have 25 with stands over flowing.

So, I applaud DCA for getting more new corps. But, as I have said before...corps come and they go at a rather rapid rate. They go inactive, they reform, etc. Audience trends are telling for the financial health for all of drum corps. And given the economy, flat or slightly down can survive. But going from 24K in Pasadena (see a number...right from the top of my head.) DCI gave the over 24K but we never got a final paid attendance figure (did we Jeff?)

I asked a question of a DCI staffer (no longer working their) right after the 2009 Indy show. The person told me..point blank...15,500. Instead of playing the game of I know something you don't, I shared the number some months later. That number seems accurate based on what the observations were for finals night.

I know Jeff did the work to pull the rest of the decade together...I also remember the 1990s Florida year one was ok, year one and then steep decline through year 3 there. Madison ticked up the following year, I remember that. Like I said before, there was a whole thread about it.

I think drum corps is facing troubled waters. I sense the new dialogs and agreements between DCA and DCI help stem the tide for awhile longer. We all have a lot to lose. It would be stupid for DCI to intentionally snub loyal fans and former Friends (yeah, Friends with a capital F because they donated). I think there are short sided folks in DCI's director's club. I'm certain DCA has a few too.

But, what would this forum be called if there were no more drum corps. I laugh when people through out the ideas of just having 30 or 40 new corps just spring up to form new local circuits like they were kernels of corn and the world was Iowa. It's not. You seem to have some knowlege of those new corps in DCA. I imagine it's not much diffent...there are stutters and starts and halts and money and not enough money and it may just finally get off the ground. That's how any start up is. Again, I applaud when any new drum corps is formed and then gets out there on the field. I ache when a corps folds.

You seem to continually remark on my inconsistencies. Yep. I gots 'em. I don't have much of a credo I hang onto. I am a bag of inconsistencies. One minute I think this...then I get new information and I think that. I used to bag on DCA all the time. You know what happened...after me screaming by someone and them screaming by me...we called horns down and we got to know each other.

It's hard to hate someone when you realize you have so much in common and you share so much. You actually get to like them a little more and get to know them as well.

So, hey, I'm sorry about being snarky. I'm just passionate about drum corps and about my opinions. (but trust me..the numbers are out there).

So, what I really want to know and perhaps Jeff can enlighten all of us...what exactly is in place for the co-op marketing, etc. Is it possible we folk out here in the southwest would be able to purchase a FN DCA Finals package? Also, if I remember correctly, DCA has always announced their finals attendance. Am I right in this?

24k was paid. it's also the last number from DCi published.

as for the co-op....I dont know all of the details, but I'm sure fan network is probably going to happen. DCA I believe announces attendance...I just know who to ask

as for the co-op...I would imagine more information being shared about where to send cuts, joint marketing, whatever both can come to agreement on to help the activity stay alive and grow. I mean you now get DCA corps judged on DCA sheets at DCI shows. Remember the old days of trying to figure out DCM scores and how it related to DCA??

[Jeff Ream]

That's fair. I think the DCA members that are ex DCI are as good as they ever were, maybe better.......to a degree.

and many never marched DCI that are just as good.

I'll match Frank Ponzo of cabs against any DCI soloist any day. I'm not just talking high notes either...I'm talking tone quality.