Cadets98 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 For more than 24 hours, I have been reading (with astonishment) the public airing of grievances by some alleged alums and/or supposed supporters of several drum corps. Bluntly, some folks here on DCP (most of whom are NOT regulars on here) have been trashing the staffs and design teams of the Glassmen, Blue Stars, Madison, and SCV....I assume in response to each of these corps failing to meet their expectations competitively. I am a Boston supporter, so I don't really have a vested interest here, except to say that this behavior in unconscionable. Look, I get the fact that this IS a discussion board, and that some folks are disappointed or even downright angry with their corps' final result. Having said that, it really bristles me that certain lap top commandos see fit to come on here and trash these pople. While most of us were spending the summer in our air conditioned homes and offices, these staffs were right there with the kids day in and day out....and in many cases, that probably included members of their design teams as well. I've been around drum corps long enough to know that kids form strong bonds with drum corps staffs....and many of them read DCP. This public dirty laundry display by some folks on DCP is counterproductive for each organization, and frankly, just plain mean. If you are someone who really does support your corps, try emailing the director, or pick up the darned phone. These kids have had to endure a rough summer in many cases as it was, and to see these "supporters" suddenly showing on here out of nowhere and calling for the firing of this staff person or that is both disingenuous and juvenile. There are probably a good deal of kids out there for whom this season was bittersweet. Do we really have to make it worse? Seriously? I actually totally disagree....Dissent is good for democracy. Dissent is good for drum corps. No one would say not to bash the coaches of a college football or basketball team for the sake of the kids. And the ages are about the same with college basketball stars being even younger (sigh) than the average age of drum corps kids. Part of what makes drum corps fun is the differences of opinions. There is no need to coddle kids. They can figure out whats going on anyway. And besides they can see right through that crap. They are way smarter than what we give them credit for especially drum corps kids. IMO, if someone doesn't like a show or an approach why not say it. Would you rather that person lie? or just not talk? And lets say that in the following year that same staff makes the same mistakes again. Should not at least a small fraction of responsibility fall on everyone who had an opportunity to express dissent on a friendly public forum as this but chose not to? Now who is looking out for the kids. So, I say let the trash talking fly, its fun, and these kids are kindergarteners. And back to the college sports analogy. Wouldn't it be awesome if DCI had press conferences at the end of shows. Could you imagine George Hopkins going off on a questioning reporter in the same way Bobby Knight used to do? Dude, disagree if you want to, but I guarantee it would fill up the seats. I know I would follow more closely for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwscv87 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 WOW JUST WOW.....Your post drips with irony considering you support BAC the birth place of some people who were very strong advocates of free speech and some who even gave their lives for the right for one to have free speech....... Right, wrong. or indifferent, here is my interpretation of your post.... You make some assumption that is very untrue...And I am sure you know the old saying about one who assumes...... WOW back at you! :) You reference freedom of speech. Others point out that freedom of speech is not protected here via the constitution. I agree, however I would think freedom of speech is something we all value regardless of whether constitutional protection applies. However, since when does having the freedom to do something imply it is the right thing to do? I didn't see craiga advocate restricting rights. I simply saw a plea for good judgement and I wholeheartedly agree. You point to DCP guidelines. DCP guidelines set a minimum level of expectations and provide us the freedom to operate within those parameters. That hardly implies that any post which does not violate those guidelines was in good taste. Criticism is fine in my opinion, but when people star dropping names and calling for individuals to be fired they have crossed a line IMO. I don't care what other avenues of communication have been attempted. Is it really necessary to be calling for folks jobs in a public forum over drum corps?? I don't think so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Wait until December and January and see how many screenames you recognize who posted within the last two or three months. Most of them disappear from DCP during the off-season. Whats wrong with taking a break, then coming back just before the season begins again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I actually totally disagree....Dissent is good for democracy. Dissent is good for drum corps. No one would say not to bash the coaches of a college football or basketball team for the sake of the kids. And the ages are about the same with college basketball stars being even younger (sigh) than the average age of drum corps kids. Part of what makes drum corps fun is the differences of opinions. There is no need to coddle kids. They can figure out whats going on anyway. And besides they can see right through that crap. They are way smarter than what we give them credit for especially drum corps kids. IMO, if someone doesn't like a show or an approach why not say it. Would you rather that person lie? or just not talk? And lets say that in the following year that same staff makes the same mistakes again. Should not at least a small fraction of responsibility fall on everyone who had an opportunity to express dissent on a friendly public forum as this but chose not to? Now who is looking out for the kids. So, I say let the trash talking fly, its fun, and these kids are kindergarteners. And back to the college sports analogy. Wouldn't it be awesome if DCI had press conferences at the end of shows. Could you imagine George Hopkins going off on a questioning reporter in the same way Bobby Knight used to do? Dude, disagree if you want to, but I guarantee it would fill up the seats. I know I would follow more closely for sure. If we started a long thread bashing the 1998 Cadets ( for any reason.. pick one ), you'd be ok with this free" expression of dissent" that you stated here would be " good for Drum Corps " ? If so, can we start a " bash the 1998 Cadets show thread " now ? Or is this just the classic case of " it depends on whose ox is being gored " when it comes to selective approval of free expression of dissent being " good for Drum Corps ". My guess, if a poster here started a thread that ripped into Hopkins or tried to rip to threads the memory of the '98 Cadets in a very public and mean spirited way, you would not be quite so supportive of THAT being " good for Drum Corps ". I could be wrong on this assumption, but I don't think you'd like a Hopkins or Cadets bashing thread, nor be all this magnanimous in calling for " freedom of dissent " allowance if you saw the dissent entailed the bashing of Hopkins/ or a Corps show in which you yourself personally marched. ' Just sayin' and for some perspective on this, thats all. Edited August 17, 2011 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.l. Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Happy Festivus! Time for the airing of grievances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMusician Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 If the staff isn't the problem then wouldn't all corps be scoring ridiculously close to each .other? You get the best staff you can get to work together and it wins. You get a bunch of kids fresh out of corps that have less knowledge you won't do as well as a well experienced staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoltonH178 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Okay, so, I'll admit to taking this thread a tad personally, and taking time to digest and process what was being discussed here. And I think you know from my posts, craiga, how much I respect your opinion and your corps family. Now that we've had a few people throw out all of the extremes, the parameters of the discussion have been set, and I feel I can weigh in a little more meaningfully. I've made more than one post criticizing my own corps for not being up to snuff, particularly within the realm of my own expertise, the brass section. I think I may have even been mentioned upthread for posting about my own experience with trying to get "hands on" with my corps' administration. A couple years back, most saw me on here arguing (what I viewed as) drum corps luddites about A&E. Now that I'm a little older, not sending kids off to camps or attending them myself, the computer starts to be a more viable option. I keep flashing back into my head when I was a CMM, and Frank Dorrite (I'm sure I spelled that wrong, pardon my ignorance Frank) explaining that with drum corps, like all other performance arts, 'those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, judge. And those who can't judge, well...I don't know, maybe they post on DCP or something.' I have to admit that at the time, posting on DCP seemed kind of pathetic, like being on the bottom of the food-chain. But if posting on DCP is so pathetic, as I thought while I was on tour, then why does it matter so much what gets said on here? As marching organizations started to first grapple with the internet, I experienced this phenomenon very first-hand in finalist BOA and DCI groups, several going so far as to ban student participation on public internet forums in any capacity. It's a kind of doublethink, really. DCP doesn't matter; DON'T YOU DARE BE NEGATIVE ON DCP. The truth is that this forum is a powerful tool for framing inside our little community, and another truth is that I have no interest in framing things to my particular view. I just want to talk about drum corps as I see it and have someone listen, because I don't get to go to camps, on tour, etc. like I have in the past. Whereas I could get my "fix" talking about the problems the Glassmen were facing by talking with the alums I worked with, that isn't an option anymore. I'm saying the same things in public that I'd been saying in the band office for years now. And I really wish that, just once, instead of attacking whatever vessel news comes in, it would occur to us well-trained drum corps worker-ants that our actions have consequences; just as I have been contemplating for the last few days since craiga started this thread. I guess my point is that I disagree with the OP on this post; that I believe what gets put out on DCP obviously gets read and matters to our community; and that addressing issues in a public forum is a healthy behavior, not a destructive one. I'm off to bed for now, but I'll still be chewing on these thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadets98 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 If we started a long thread bashing the 1998 Cadets ( for any reason.. pick one ), you'd be ok with this free" expression of dissent" that you stated here would be " good for Drum Corps " ? If so, can we start a " bash the 1998 Cadets show thread " now ? Or is this just the classic case of " it depends on whose ox is being gored " when it comes to selective approval of free expression of dissent being " good for Drum Corps ". My guess, if a poster here started a thread that ripped into Hopkins or tried to rip to threads the memory of the '98 Cadets in a very public and mean spirited way, you would not be quite so supportive of THAT being " good for Drum Corps ". I could be wrong on this assumption, but I don't think you'd like a Hopkins or Cadets bashing thread, nor be all this magnanimous in calling for " freedom of dissent " allowance if you saw the dissent entailed the bashing of Hopkins/ or a Corps show in which you yourself personally marched. ' Just sayin' and for some perspective on this, thats all. I'll start on bashing on Cadets 98. I thought the lead sopranos in the opener had some major tuning issues. And I was a lead soprano in that line. I was actually pretty ###### at Frank Sullivan for letting us sound like that. In our defense we only had 18 sops but that's just an excuse. So, there ya go. On the other hand, we marched our balls off that year. One of the cleanest marching drum corps EVER. 10.0 in Vis. Perf. baby....eat it!!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 . Theres an old saying.. "if you're in a big enough hole already, stop digging ." But if people want to keep digging,.....then keep digging. Its not my shovel and its not my hole. I actually totally disagree....Dissent is good for democracy. Dissent is good for drum corps. No one would say not to bash the coaches of a college football or basketball team for the sake of the kids. And the ages are about the same with college basketball stars being even younger (sigh) than the average age of drum corps kids. Part of what makes drum corps fun is the differences of opinions. There is no need to coddle kids. They can figure out whats going on anyway. And besides they can see right through that crap. They are way smarter than what we give them credit for especially drum corps kids. IMO, if someone doesn't like a show or an approach why not say it. Would you rather that person lie? or just not talk? And lets say that in the following year that same staff makes the same mistakes again. Should not at least a small fraction of responsibility fall on everyone who had an opportunity to express dissent on a friendly public forum as this but chose not to? Now who is looking out for the kids. So, I say let the trash talking fly, its fun, and these kids are kindergarteners. And back to the college sports analogy. Wouldn't it be awesome if DCI had press conferences at the end of shows. Could you imagine George Hopkins going off on a questioning reporter in the same way Bobby Knight used to do? Dude, disagree if you want to, but I guarantee it would fill up the seats. I know I would follow more closely for sure. I'll start on bashing on Cadets 98. I thought the lead sopranos in the opener had some major tuning issues. And I was a lead soprano in that line. I was actually pretty ###### at Frank Sullivan for letting us sound like that. In our defense we only had 18 sops but that's just an excuse. So, there ya go. On the other hand, we marched our balls off that year. One of the cleanest marching drum corps EVER. 10.0 in Vis. Perf. baby....eat it!!!! :) Ok I think I get it... Although I might not be as eloquent as BRASSO, are you saying that you can come here and have class and show as well as possibly help spread respect and a positive attitude, rather than be an AZZ#%[€? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 For all of the folks complaining about this corps or that one not moving up in the ranks, and the design/instuctional teams that somehow let everyone down, I have this bit of wisdom that I heard from a DCI HOF member who is still actively instructing a top 12 corps. When asked about how his corps was doing in on June 1, 2011 he said "Great!" When asked about their chances competitively this last season he was not as positive. The reasoning? He said, "Who are we going to beat?" A practical, and truthful perspective on competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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