Pioneer-How have they managed to survive

[ripper]

They are green because they choose to be green

Edited April 10, 2012 by ripper

[DrillmanSop06]

Imagine if just one year, some big name staff members got together, and just said, screw it, im going to Pio. Or what if the corps one year just went all in and put all their money on the table and hired some big names.

...that would be the opposite of why Pioneer succeeds.

[Piper]

I think it all boils down to a philosophy. That organization, and everyone involved, understands WHY they exist. A lot of corps focus on what they will do, or how they will do it, but never even ask themselves why they exist. From my experience with the organization, they think about why before the what or the how. They tailor everything they do, and how they will do it to fit their purpose, not the other way around. That's why they remain successful (success is defined by the objective of the individuals involved, not the outsiders).

I can't say it any better than actucker, but I'll agree 100%. I know it sounds strange, but DCI is kind of like the United States of America. There're certain laws that everyone has to abide by. By the same token each state has a degree of lattitude as to how they conduct their internal affairs. Drum Corps isn't really much different. Every corps has it's own way of doing things and you'll never find two that are the same. Some top tier corps are designed, built and geared for finals every year. I doubt that Pio takes that approach.

[perc2100]

Imagine if just one year, some big name staff members got together, and just said, screw it, im going to Pio. Or what if the corps one year just went all in and put all their money on the table and hired some big names.

I think something similar happened in the mid-90's: maybe 1996? Blue Devil's designers designed Pioneer's show I believe, and the corps was pretty successful (Div. 2 2nd place, World Class Top 20). The year didn't exactly contribute to awesome competitive successes, but if I remember correctly that 96 corps was a talented group with a well-put-together program.

I agree that Pioneer doing this would be the antithesis of their financial success, however.

[perc2100]

I think it all boils down to a philosophy. That organization, and everyone involved, understands WHY they exist. A lot of corps focus on what they will do, or how they will do it, but never even ask themselves why they exist. From my experience with the organization, they think about why before the what or the how. They tailor everything they do, and how they will do it to fit their purpose, not the other way around. That's why they remain successful (success is defined by the objective of the individuals involved, not the outsiders).

And this is really at the heart of why Pioneer is still active and many others are not. So many corps either put all their money into one successful season at the risk of financial peril, or struggle financially trying to 'keep up withe the big boys' while not living within their means. While one could criticize many things regarding Pioneer's show design styles, competitive success, etc, one could never say Pioneer lived beyond their means, or ever did anything that wasn't in the best interest of their organization and members. I was never a fan of their shows, and competed against them when I marched (kind of: they were rarely that close to us ). But I've always respected their organization skills, they way they treated their members, and their strong philosophy that has been the root of their survival over the decades. My corps was competitively better than Pioneer when I marched, but has not existed in many years: for that I admire Pioneer's Admin, and even kind of envy the corps and its members/alumni/staff, etc. Their corps thrives financially while my corps is a distant memory.

[nemesiscorps]

I think something similar happened in the mid-90's: maybe 1996? Blue Devil's designers designed Pioneer's show I believe, and the corps was pretty successful (Div. 2 2nd place, World Class Top 20). The year didn't exactly contribute to awesome competitive successes, but if I remember correctly that 96 corps was a talented group with a well-put-together program.

Thanks for contributing, but I think that that is not very accurate. I was not actively teaching or doing admin with Pioneer in 1996, but I don't recall even one person from the Blue Devils organization being on board with Pioneer that year. I'm certainly aware of a few people (Todd Ryan, Pat Seidling (sp?), etc.) that had been working with Pioneer a few years before 1996 and then moving on (eventually to BD in some capacity), but not the other way around. There's certainly a chance I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I'll ask RB, or maybe Pio Webmaster can confirm some of this?

Anyway, 1996 was a great year for Pio, and most people (internally) would consider it the peak of the Div. II/III years, even though the corps didn't take the title. It was an incredibly talented and strong corps, in every caption, and the program was equally as awesome. I believe it was the largest horn line the corps had ever put together (maybe their largest corps ever), and the final year to really benefit from the five previous years where there was heavy alumni staff and management, and a strong nucleus of veteran members with five years or more experience marching with the organization. Most of that had dissipated by the time the 1997 Div. I season rolled around.

On a personal note, I vividly recall watching the 1996 corps perform at the DCM championships, and being so proud (and pretty emotional) about where they corps had come from since I'd gotten back on board in the fall of 1988. I also had a sense of sadness, feeling that things would never be the same again in regard to the level of local participation… the corps had truly captured the attention of the drum corps world, and there was no going back. It was a somewhat unofficial, unplanned, and mostly unwanted severing of most of the local ties that had built the foundation for the 94, 95, and 96 corps. The activity was quickly changing, and Pioneer was changing with it to keep the momentum going. Clearly, there were GREAT years after 1996, but in my personal opinion, I was right… it hasn't really been the same since.

[MikeZ]

I can fill in a little of the information about 1996 Pioneer. I won't mention how I felt about the placement, and why the corps finished where they finished. I will stick to facts about who was working with the corps and numbers. I will state that 1996 Pioneer was by far the best drumcorps I have been involved in and I have many great memories of that season...perhaps the best summer of my life.

The percussion book in 1996 was written by Scott Johnson and Jeff Lee from Blue Devils. I don't know why, but they had written the percussion parts for the closer of the 1995 show. Why just the closer...I have no idea. I played baritone and have very little knowledge of the inner workings of the drum side of things. I do know we had one bass drummer and one pit member march BD the next season, and I believe one other member of the snare section ended up in Concord before his matching career was over.

Todd Ryan wrote the drill in 1996. He was the drill writer for Pioneer for most of the 90's with his last season as drill writer being 1997. He would usually work with the corps for a camp or two during the winter, and would occasionally be around as he was finishing up with the drill. It is still a great thrill to say that I was taught (for a very small amount of time) by a dci hall of famer

[MikeZ]

As for numbers. The 1996 Pioneer hornline was big, but not the biggest. That honor goes to 1997. I believe we marched anywhere from 58-60 in 1996, while I think 1997 topped out at 64. Although 1997 was a larger hornline, 1996 was far more talented. 97 had quite a few non brass players in the line, while 1996 consisted of almost entirely "brass" players. I believe that during the 96 season Pioneer beat every hornline in dci in performance brass with the exception of the top six and Magic. Check out the recaps from Allentown to get a sense of how well that hornline scored. The corps was strong across the board in all of the performance captions, but struggled quite a bit in GE.

As for the placement in 1996. The corps finished second on div II/III and 20th at quarterfinals. It's funny that I marched 5 seasons and although 1996 was by far the best corps, it was also the lowest placing corps I marched in. I have thoughts on why the placement happened, and what happened to cause the drop in numbers in the late 90's, but those are opinions and not facts. That is a conversation I am much more comfortable having face to face, and not in a public forum.

I strongly encourage anyone who has not heard or seen 1996 Pioneer to try to track down a recording. I think lots of folks would be pretty surprised at just how good that corps was. I am doing whatever small part I can to try to give back to the corps. Although I don't have extra cash to donate, I am goin to all the camps this winter/spring and helping out in whatever way I can. I would encourage any other alumni that has lost touch with the corps to stop by a camp and lend a hand, or send a check, or better yet a prospective member Pioneer's way. All the help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike Zerhusen

Pioneer Bari/Euph

1994-1998

[nemesiscorps]

I can fill in a little of the information about 1996 Pioneer. I won't mention how I felt about the placement, and why the corps finished where they finished. I will stick to facts about who was working with the corps and numbers. I will state that 1996 Pioneer was by far the best drumcorps I have been involved in and I have many great memories of that season...perhaps the best summer of my life.

The percussion book in 1996 was written by Scott Johnson and Jeff Lee from Blue Devils. I don't know why, but they had written the percussion parts for the closer of the 1995 show. Why just the closer...I have no idea. I played baritone and have very little knowledge of the inner workings of the drum side of things. I do know we had one bass drummer and one pit member march BD the next season, and I believe one other member of the snare section ended up in Concord before his matching career was over.

Todd Ryan wrote the drill in 1996. He was the drill writer for Pioneer for most of the 90's with his last season as drill writer being 1997. He would usually work with the corps for a camp or two during the winter, and would occasionally be around as he was finishing up with the drill. It is still a great thrill to say that I was taught (for a very small amount of time) by a dci hall of famer

Thanks for the insight Mike. I stand corrected, I wasn't aware that Todd was still writing for the corps up to 1997, and he had certainly moved west by then from his work with Star of Indiana, so I assume that maybe he was part of the connection to the BD percussion book designers. Did they write the percussion book for just 96, or did it extend beyond?

I also agree with you on the talent of the 96 horn line. However, as it relates to the entire corps, both 96 and 97 really show Pioneer at the peak of it's "full corps" strength and capabilities, whereas I believe that 1999 (the little "Pio muscle corps") was the most talented Pioneer corps ever.

Back on topic...

Looking back, even during those years mentioned above, there was always criticism of RB for "holding the corps back" in one way or another, but it's clear now that those years were pretty fragile from the standpoint of "what if" RB had not stayed the course as he did. Many people wanted to go nuts and put all resources on the table to boost the corps toward a finals spot contention. I guess we'll never know how things would have played out, but one could realistically argue that it's likely that the corps would not be here today had he listened to the critics...IMO... based upon what has happened to some corps that ultimately did achieve a finals spot, even if only briefly.

[MisterA]

As for numbers. The 1996 Pioneer hornline was big, but not the biggest. That honor goes to 1997. I believe we marched anywhere from 58-60 in 1996, while I think 1997 topped out at 64. Although 1997 was a larger hornline, 1996 was far more talented. 97 had quite a few non brass players in the line, while 1996 consisted of almost entirely "brass" players. I believe that during the 96 season Pioneer beat every hornline in dci in performance brass with the exception of the top six and Magic. Check out the recaps from Allentown to get a sense of how well that hornline scored. The corps was strong across the board in all of the performance captions, but struggled quite a bit in GE.

As for the placement in 1996. The corps finished second on div II/III and 20th at quarterfinals. It's funny that I marched 5 seasons and although 1996 was by far the best corps, it was also the lowest placing corps I marched in. I have thoughts on why the placement happened, and what happened to cause the drop in numbers in the late 90's, but those are opinions and not facts. That is a conversation I am much more comfortable having face to face, and not in a public forum.

I strongly encourage anyone who has not heard or seen 1996 Pioneer to try to track down a recording. I think lots of folks would be pretty surprised at just how good that corps was. I am doing whatever small part I can to try to give back to the corps. Although I don't have extra cash to donate, I am goin to all the camps this winter/spring and helping out in whatever way I can. I would encourage any other alumni that has lost touch with the corps to stop by a camp and lend a hand, or send a check, or better yet a prospective member Pioneer's way. All the help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike Zerhusen

Pioneer Bari/Euph

1994-1998

Thanks for the information. I remember a while back, I found an old program from one of the shows in the 96 season. Sometimes back then they would put additional information, and if I remember right, the # of members in that show was around 122, also listed in that program was Nite Express(offshoot corps of Emerald Knights I think) and they had around 116-118 according to the program. I had almost forgotten both of these corps were quite that big. 96 was my favorite show by Pioneer, and also my favorite show by Nite Express. I remember early to mid season that Nite Express seemed a little bit better(although Pioneer beat them scorewise every show I saw them to my surprise), but by mid to end of the season, Pioneer seemed a lot better than Nite Express. I remember that many people were then shocked as Les Etoiles beat Pioneer in DII finals. I have to say the closer in 96 from Pioneer is one of my all time favorites by them. What an amazing sound performing such a powerful song. It is great to see at least one of those corps remaining today. I personally also think that 96 was possibly one of the best seasons overall for DII/III(Open Class).