Use of Extra Bass and/or Bass Synth in Shows ?

[N.E. Brigand]

And I will re-iterate my dare: I DARE any top 17 corps to perform a show that doesn't utilize any synthesized brass or percussion "ehancements" or sound effects. Do it and let us hear what you're really made of - and you might even get rewarded for it, score-wise.

Is Boston using a synth this year? I can't recall hearing one, and I haven't seen one in Fan Network videos -- but I don't think there have been close-ups where one could tell for sure.

[N.E. Brigand]

Agreed! Are the judges giving the corps feedback on this stuff though, positive or negative?

Apropos the recent health care decision, and Justice Ginsburg's comment before it was announced that "those who know don't talk; those who talk don't know", I read an article about "Why SCOTUS leaks less than the CIA". Since the discontinuation of DVD commentary tracks, it seems like the DCI judges are as tight lipped as the Supremes!

Edited July 18, 2012 by N.E. Brigand

[Grandpa]

Which has what to do with the sound outdoors of a drum corps, where synths are legal elements to use as part of the performance?

Drum corps music is arranged from an original source to maximize the sound being produced by the members. If the arrangers think a low-end synth helps create a better sound, great.

An orchestra playihg a Beethoven symphony is playing the score as written by Beethoven.

BUT - they are perfectly at liberty to do it - there are no rules against it.

But they don't, because it's insulting to the real musicians, unnecessary, and it sucks.

[MarimbaManiac]

Love it, love it all.

Frankly I think the dislike tends to be from people who don't particularly like current popular music. Most current music is electronic, or has electronic aspects. Dubstep (one of the most popular up and coming genres) is built on bass synths that are pumped up above everything else. DCI and WGI designers, channeling the current trends, echo this in their arranging. The desire to hear purely acoustic music in the marching arts is fading, and I think this debate will be moot in the next 5-10 years as electronic music and electro-acoustic integration becomes more mainstream. Even in the symphony halls, electronics are VERY popular, and augmenting live or prerecorded acoustic sounds is common place and considered appropriate.

Electronics have permeated not just WGI/DCI/BOA/etc., but nearly every genre of music created today. Some people use it more than others, but it's not going anywhere. In fact, it will probably increase in frequency and density. For instance WGI just passed a rule this last year allowing lighting effects of the floor during shows. I would be willing to bet the farm that within the next 5 years this will be carried over to DCI.

[N.E. Brigand]

For instance WGI just passed a rule this last year allowing lighting effects of the floor during shows. I would be willing to bet the farm that within the next 5 years this will be carried over to DCI.

Is the lighting run by a student/member, or by an adult/staffer?

Edited July 18, 2012 by N.E. Brigand

[onmyown]

Is Boston using a synth this year? I can't recall hearing one, and I haven't seen one in Fan Network videos -- but I don't think there have been close-ups where one could tell for sure.

I don't beleive BAC has used synth so far. Just amplifying acoustic pit instruments. The bass drop effect has not been their M.O. They've used a little bit for non-brass moments where they wanted some electronic instrumentation, in past years.

IMHO, the rules for electronic instrumentation should be modified as follows: "the use of continuous low frequency notes/chords produced using non-acoustic, non-brass or non-percussion instrumentation (a.k.a.- synthesizers, electronic pianos or guitars) during impact brass notes/chords is prohibited."

Whether it sounds good or not, bass drop notes during big brass chords directly enhances the volume and deepness of the instruments ARTFICIALLY. These aren't Drum, Bugle and Synthesizer Corps.

[Tez]

Which has what to do with the sound outdoors of a drum corps, where synths are legal elements to use as part of the performance?

Drum corps music is arranged from an original source to maximize the sound being produced by the members. If the arrangers think a low-end synth helps create a better sound, great.

An orchestra playihg a Beethoven symphony is playing the score as written by Beethoven.

How are synths not "legal" in the symphony orchestra? Of course they are... it's just the composers/arrangers choose not to use them in horribly tasteless ways.

I have never once heard an orchestra, wind ensemble, big band, pit orchestra, brass band, percussion ensemble, etc.... use bass synth in the way that 90% of the drum corps are using them.... that is to "enhance" the bottom end using a non-discript low frequency sound. Why don't these others use synth in that way?.... because the electronic sound, no matter how well "balanced" it is, will never blend with an acoustic ensemble. Yes, jazz big bands very often use amplified bass..... but even here, the bass does not play the same parts as the winds, and does not sustain big chords like the winds do. It remains a separate entity.

I have no problem with electronics used for sound effects, or other musical textures that are distinct from the acoustic instruments.... but when nearly every corps uses the synth bass to enhance the bottom end of the brass sound, it really becomes cheap, boring, and completely un-effective. Carolina Crown has proven this year that the best brass sound needs no enhancement, so what are the others thinking?

[Tez]

Love it, love it all.

Frankly I think the dislike tends to be from people who don't particularly like current popular music. Most current music is electronic, or has electronic aspects. Dubstep (one of the most popular up and coming genres) is built on bass synths that are pumped up above everything else. DCI and WGI designers, channeling the current trends, echo this in their arranging. The desire to hear purely acoustic music in the marching arts is fading, and I think this debate will be moot in the next 5-10 years as electronic music and electro-acoustic integration becomes more mainstream. Even in the symphony halls, electronics are VERY popular, and augmenting live or prerecorded acoustic sounds is common place and considered appropriate.

Electronics have permeated not just WGI/DCI/BOA/etc., but nearly every genre of music created today. Some people use it more than others, but it's not going anywhere. In fact, it will probably increase in frequency and density. For instance WGI just passed a rule this last year allowing lighting effects of the floor during shows. I would be willing to bet the farm that within the next 5 years this will be carried over to DCI.

The difference in popular music is that all of the sounds are electric in some way. When you go to a modern pop music concert, very little of what you hear is actually coming from the instruments/singers themselves. It's all coming from giant speaker stacks and balanced and blended by a sound engineer. The same obviously applies to a professionally produced recording. You will never be able to achieve this blend in drum corps until all the instruments are amplified. When this happens, drum corps will lose what I believe is the most unique musical aspect of the activity..... the glorious acoustic sound. This sets them apart from all other music and I truly think the majority of fans really enjoy the purely acoustic sound over anything else. Why do you think it's still so popular to watch the horn lines warm-up in the lot?

[Rifuarian]

If it's going to be used, it should be felt and not really heard. The problem is that the sound usually comes from two speaker set-ups at the ends of the pit, so that in order for the sound to be felt in the press-box it means huge parts of the audience get a face full of WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM the entire night. If the thunderous goo could somehow come from the backfield it would be a different story. But that would probably be much too complicated given the limited amount of time corps have for setup (another problem with drum corps electronics).

I'm actually very pro-electronics, but I find it pretty distressing to see even the most elite corps fumble around with them like amateurs, year after year.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Rifuarian

[NR_Ohiobando]

Which has what to do with the sound outdoors of a drum corps, where synths are legal elements to use as part of the performance?

Drum corps music is arranged from an original source to maximize the sound being produced by the members. If the arrangers think a low-end synth helps create a better sound, great.

An orchestra playihg a Beethoven symphony is playing the score as written by Beethoven.

Yes because as everyone knows,

ORCHESTRAS NEVER PLAY OUTDOORS WITHOUT AMPLIFICATION. AND WHEN THEY DO, EVERYONE DISLIKES IT IN COMPARISON TO A PERFORMANCE WITH A SYNTHESIZED BACKING

Oh look. There are no tubas playing in this video because Beethoven didn't write any tuba parts. They could definitely use some reinforcement on the low end because it sounds terrible.

---

See, the problem with you and everyone else like you is that due to the competitive nature of the activity, somewhere along the line people like you somehow decided "IF THE LOW END IS SUPPORTED WELL BY A SYNTH BACKING THEN IT IS A SUPERIOR SOUND TO THAT OF A CORPS WHICH DOESN'T USE A SYNTH BACKING". Your inclusion of the synth is not inclusion at all; it is competitive exclusion of a perfectly fine ensemble choice of "No. This show we're writing doesn't include a synthesized low end voicing, and it doesn't hurt our scores in comparison to other corps with low-end synth."