Jeremy Denzer Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Just noticed that VK is not going to finals. This leaves only 16 corps competing in Indy in Open class.....Raiders also look to be on the fence.....What happened to open class to cause such a rapid decline in the number of corps? Less than 20 years ago we had more than 16 corps in Div II / III in the midwest alone....now we have less than that in the entire country. How many more years can the division survive before DCI does away with it and just has a single prelims at championships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelloHorn13 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 No regional circuits. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Denzer Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Even without the regional circuits there are still DCI shows in every region that corps could be a part of. Also the last few weeks of the season for Open class corps are spent on a mini tour that was not part of a regional circuit that leads up to championships. At the rate we are going if DCI continues to even sponsor an Open class will everyone make finals.....or will they just do away with the Open class and just have one large division with everyone fighting for the same 12 finalist spots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Even without the regional circuits there are still DCI shows in every region that corps could be a part of. Also the last few weeks of the season for Open class corps are spent on a mini tour that was not part of a regional circuit that leads up to championships. At the rate we are going if DCI continues to even sponsor an Open class will everyone make finals.....or will they just do away with the Open class and just have one large division with everyone fighting for the same 12 finalist spots. Only if they are invited to be in the show. I do know that initially Raiders were not invited to be in Jackson. Raiders were not invited to come back to West Chester either. Since Raiders or Surf no longer hosts a show, there are no regional shows in the NJ area to attend. To make up the gaps, Raiders do several exhibitions at the DCA shows in the area. Sad but true. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Only if they are invited to be in the show. I do know that initially Raiders were not invited to be in Jackson. Raiders were not invited to come back to West Chester either. Since Raiders or Surf no longer hosts a show, there are no regional shows in the NJ area to attend. To make up the gaps, Raiders do several exhibitions at the DCA shows in the area. Sad but true. I am very pro OC; I support them; I watch them when I can. The following explanation is rather correct; might be off slightly, but the reasoning for these 3 items is correct: 1) Since CA has been traditionally isolated it has allowed for OC corps to flourish because they can perform at many west coast shows along side BD, and SCV. However, just watch... the more midwest and eastern WC corps travel out west the less room there will be at these shows to plug in OC corps. Only x number of corps can perform on a Tuesday night so Regiment, Bluecoats, Cadets, etc... going out west will eventually bump out OC corps for those show slots. 2) The push at local shows to watch the big-boys warming-up in the lot instead of going into the stands for the first few corps performances is also a factor. When most people are outside the stadium no concessions are being sold and revenue is being lost. So to draw the fans into the stadium as soon as possible a show sponsor needs the first corps on to be as high of a placing WC as possible. 3) Most local shows are local sponsored and can be either OC only (cheaper show fee) or WC/OC (more expensive fee). The thing is that most sponsors opt out of the OC only show (even though the fee is less) to garner a larger fan draw, and and within the WC/OC show there is no split requirement; it can even be all WC finalists if the sponsor can secure those WC corps. This lack of split requirement even hurts the lower WC corps. And to be quite frank it is the better choice for fan draw based on the fee paid. When a fan is required to pay upwards of $50 per ticket (center section seats) at just a local show here is the question: which six corps line-up would they want to see?: show line-up a) four of the WC finalists one possible WC finalist contender, and -one lower WC corps or one higher placing OC corps-; or show line-up b) (again same ticket price) two of the WC finalists, one WC finalist contender, one lower WC corps, and two OC corps. Therefore, the days of local shows where lower division corps go on in the early evening daylight, a lower placing WC corps going on at twilight, intermission, then the two or three top finalist corps going on under the lights (with the fans watching all six corps from the stands) is a thing of the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Even without the regional circuits there are still DCI shows in every region that corps could be a part of. Also the last few weeks of the season for Open class corps are spent on a mini tour that was not part of a regional circuit that leads up to championships. At the rate we are going if DCI continues to even sponsor an Open class will everyone make finals.....or will they just do away with the Open class and just have one large division with everyone fighting for the same 12 finalist spots. Mr. Denzer: Let's say you are the show coordinator for a local six corps line-up at a venue which will hold around 2,000 audience members; you are responsible for the up-front costs such as show fee, stadium rental, electric costs, food costs, liability insurance, ticket printing, marketing/advertising, find housing for the corps, etc... and to accomplish this you have to secure "up-front" funding upwards of $30k to $50k. Since you do not have the personal capital to foot the bill you need to secure sponsors/investors; people who want to make sure they are reaching the 2,000 plus fans you say will attend the show so as to get a return on their investment. Question) To make sure they do not lose their financial investment, and to make sure you can pretty much almost guarantee 2,000 plus will attend, what level of corps would you want at that show to draw in the maximum number of paid attendance? Edited July 20, 2012 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Denzer Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Good point and I fully understand the viewpoint of a show coordinator.....I guess my next question is how much longer will DCI even support an Open Class division? The current number of corps does not seem to warrant its own separate championships in a stadium that I am sure is not cheap. Why not just have the open class champion crowned by the highest score of an open class corps in World class prelims. Let me say that I do not agree with this thinking, however I am sure it is the next logical step for DCI. Having a prelims and finals for 15 corps in its own stadium does not make financial sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Would not be surprised if in the near future, all corps are WC and are all scored on the same sheets. Maybe just different Divisions of WC G7/8 (ToC Show) More of a National touring group (9-18) A Regional/Touring (along the lines of Academy or Surf) with say bottom remaining WC and top 10 OC A Regional only class (bottom OC corps) Still can have ToC corps and National touring corps in Indy. Rest can be in Michigan City. Or whatever the cities DCI will be in. Just have it so the championships are not be too far away so at least all corps can come enjoy DCI week. Previous years placement and financial situation dictates what division you go into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripper Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 NEXT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am very pro OC; I support them; I watch them when I can. The following explanation is rather correct; might be off slightly, but the reasoning for these 3 items is correct: 1) Since CA has been traditionally isolated it has allowed for OC corps to flourish because they can perform at many west coast shows along side BD, and SCV. However, just watch... the more midwest and eastern WC corps travel out west the less room there will be at these shows to plug in OC corps. Only x number of corps can perform on a Tuesday night so Regiment, Bluecoats, Cadets, etc... going out west will eventually bump out OC corps for those show slots. Hi Stu, I agree with a lot of your points, but I don't see more midwest and eastern corps coming to CA. They are very well received out here, as opposed to BD going to the east, but still most choose not to come. Great to see PR this year, and Cadet last. But, I think that we would just have more corps and longer shows. In general, travel is too expensive and there are a ton of other venues which make a west coast swing unnecessary. BTW, I prefer OC to world in general, with few exceptions. There is more variety and the competition is usually better, especially this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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