Bill L. Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) What is GE ? I've asked many differant people this question and they all give me a differant answer. I've asked friends, DCI judges, fans , people who teach judging, the list goes on and on ! I never get the same answer from anybody. Why is that ? How can it be judged if you can not define it ? General Effect ...... does it have to have a good or bad effect on you ? How do you score that effect ? I mean , I love liver & onoins ! My Wife likes them, my Son can take em' or leave em', and my Mom HATES them . I would score them a 10, my wife would score them a 7.5 , my Son more than likely have them at a 5.6 . My dear old Mom has not tried them sence she was a young girl when her Dad made her eat them. Now Mom being Mom she can't score them 0 , but she knows they use to taste awful so she gives them a 1.3 ! Now according to my family these numbers are the general effect that liver & onoins has on them ? I love them just as much as my Mom hates them, both of these are effect ??????? right ? I smile , she barf's ! Effect is effect , be it good or bad ! Drum Corps is no differant . Seems to me if a judge A likes what corps A is doing in music GE tonight he give them a 7.8 . Tomorrow night judge B hates what corps A is doing in music GE he gives them a 4.7 . Which one is right ? Can someone define what GE is ? Edited July 31, 2012 by Bill L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkbugler Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Your question is a good one but I don't think that judge's are varying that much anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudTXmom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am also curious about what "ensemble" is... Pit? All 150 members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Your question is a good one but I don't think that judge's are varying that much anymore. I think the point is .. they SHOULD be varying more. Considering he can't get a clear answer ... and opinions can vary drastically .. how is it possible that effect scores would be consistent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am also curious about what "ensemble" is... Pit? All 150 members? Ensemble visual is how all the marching elements fit together .. all sections except for the pit. Ensemble Music is how all the musical elements fit together .. not including color guard. It takes into account the composition a little bit .. but it is mostly about the performance of what has been given to them. Does it all fit together properly ... does it move together properly .. is there balance to the design and is it being performed as such. It's a ton more detailed than that .. but that's just a small overview of the caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) What is GE ? I've asked many differant people this question and they all give me a differant answer. I've asked friends, DCI judges, fans , people who teach judging, the list goes on and on ! I never get the same answer from anybody. Why is that ? How can it be judged if you can not define it ? General Effect ...... does it have to have a good or bad effect on you ? How do you score that effect ? I mean , I love liver & onoins ! My Wife likes them, my Son can take em' or leave em', and my Mom HATES them . I would score them a 10, my wife would score them a 7.5 , my Son more than likely have them at a 5.6 . My dear old Mom has not tried them sence she was a young girl when her Dad made her eat them. Now Mom being Mom she can't score them 0 , but she knows they use to taste awful so she gives them a 1.3 ! Now according to my family these numbers are the general effect that liver & onoins has on them ? I love them just as much as my Mom hates them, both of these are effect ??????? right ? I smile , she barf's ! Effect is effect , be it good or bad ! Drum Corps is no differant . Seems to me if a judge A likes what corps A is doing in music GE tonight he give them a 7.8 . Tomorrow night judge B hates what corps A is doing in music GE he gives them a 4.7 . Which one is right ? Can someone define what GE is ? 'To me .. Effect should always be about ... Does the Music fit the Visual and vice versa? Does it flow when the music flows? Does it contract and spin and have counter motion in the visual when the music is doing the same? Does it have big impact moments that wow you? Are focal points clear when sections are being featured? Where I see a huge problem in modern design is the acceptance of block/grid sets meaning many different things. When they were first used .. they were used as a STRONG and IMPACTFUL set ... that's how it was interpreted. Much like a company front would be interpreted. Now it's used in a blase` fashion. These days .. blocks are used for more than 50% of the drill in most show designs. Another thing is Negative space .... I have always enjoyed negative space. It gives more clarity to the design. Around 1990 .. judges were harping integration ... integrate integrate integrate. That really did eliminate negative space because it always had to be filled with a section of the guard or the battery or whomever was being featured at the time. Now it's gone to larger intervals and no negative space except for once or twice in a show .. and those are impact moments. Hence, Blocks and Negative space have traded places over time by their definition of effect. IOW ... the technical aspects of designing effect have changed over time. And, unless you're a designer or caption head .. you're not going to get the feedback from judges as to what the "accepted and expected" devises are these days for generating effect. As for the rest of us .. we know what we like and complain when we don't get it .... and the problem is .. that's not what is being rewarded anymore. Effect IS supposed to be about how it makes you feel. Does it create tension, release, flow, proper staging for the voicing of the corps (this is pretty much eliminated now .. which sucks) ... does the visual match the music? 8 times out of 10 these days .. it doesn't really. That's why I enjoy the 2 times more than anything else. Those are the corps I get behind and support. I just wish the judges would come out with it and admit that their preferences and what they're being taught is effective probably goes against what THEY truly believe is effective. And that they don't have the guts to reward the conventional as much or moreso than the "innovative" or "modern" perspective of what effect truly is. I'll stop there for now. Edited July 31, 2012 by supersop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudTXmom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Ensemble visual is how all the marching elements fit together .. all sections except for the pit. Ensemble Music is how all the musical elements fit together .. not including color guard. It takes into account the composition a little bit .. but it is mostly about the performance of what has been given to them. Does it all fit together properly ... does it move together properly .. is there balance to the design and is it being performed as such. It's a ton more detailed than that .. but that's just a small overview of the caption. Thank you for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyGranite Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 ' To me .. Effect should always be about ... Does the Music fit the Visual and vice versa? Does it flow when the music flows? Does it contract and spin and have counter motion in the visual when the music is doing the same? Does it have big impact moments that wow you? Are focal points clear when sections are being featured? Where I see a huge problem in modern design is the acceptance of block/grid sets meaning many different things. When they were first used .. they were used as a STRONG and IMPACTFUL set ... that's how it was interpreted. Much like a company front would be interpreted. Now it's used in a blase` fashion. These days .. blocks are used for more than 50% of the drill in most show designs. Another thing is Negative space .... I have always enjoyed negative space. It gives more clarity to the design. Around 1990 .. judges were harping integration ... integrate integrate integrate. That really did eliminate negative space because it always had to be filled with a section of the guard or the battery or whomever was being featured at the time. Now it's gone to larger intervals and no negative space except for once or twice in a show .. and those are impact moments. Hence, Blocks and Negative space have traded places over time by their definition of effect. IOW ... the technical aspects of designing effect have changed over time. And, unless you're a designer or caption head .. you're not going to get the feedback from judges as to what the "accepted and expected" devises are these days for generating effect. As for the rest of us .. we know what we like and complain when we don't get it .... and the problem is .. that's not what is being rewarded anymore. Effect IS supposed to be about how it makes you feel. Does it create tension, release, flow, proper staging for the voicing of the corps (this is pretty much eliminated now .. which sucks) ... does the visual match the music? 8 times out of 10 these days .. it doesn't really. That's why I enjoy the 2 times more than anything else. Those are the corps I get behind and support. I just wish the judges would come out with it and admit that their preferences and what they're being taught is effective probably goes against what THEY truly believe is effective. And that they don't have the guts to reward the conventional as much or moreso than the "innovative" or "modern" perspective of what effect truly is . I'll stop there for now. It almost sounds to me like the 8 out of 10 you mention are what I characterize as JABOM/M. Would you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill L. Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 It seems most here can not define GE either .?.? So does it boil down to like or dislike ? Is that how GE scores are produced ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) What is GE ? I've asked many differant people this question and they all give me a differant answer. I've asked friends, DCI judges, fans , people who teach judging, the list goes on and on ! I never get the same answer from anybody. Why is that ? How can it be judged if you can not define it ? General Effect ...... does it have to have a good or bad effect on you ? How do you score that effect ? I mean , I love liver & onoins ! My Wife likes them, my Son can take em' or leave em', and my Mom HATES them . I would score them a 10, my wife would score them a 7.5 , my Son more than likely have them at a 5.6 . My dear old Mom has not tried them sence she was a young girl when her Dad made her eat them. Now Mom being Mom she can't score them 0 , but she knows they use to taste awful so she gives them a 1.3 ! Now according to my family these numbers are the general effect that liver & onoins has on them ? I love them just as much as my Mom hates them, both of these are effect ??????? right ? I smile , she barf's ! Effect is effect , be it good or bad ! Drum Corps is no differant . Seems to me if a judge A likes what corps A is doing in music GE tonight he give them a 7.8 . Tomorrow night judge B hates what corps A is doing in music GE he gives them a 4.7 . Which one is right ? Can someone define what GE is ? I can't tell you what " Music General Effect " is. But in DCI I can tell you what it is NOT. " Music General Effect " in DCI judging is most definately NOT Jersey Surf music's general effect. This much anyway, everybody on here can agree with. Edited July 31, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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