Silliness

[danielray]

Well personally I think the point of this was to actually convey the emotions that they're trying to get across. You can't get the feeling of "alone", "scared", "fragile", "abused", just from music right? I think the speaking was emphasized by the background music, therefore creating the emotional impact that they were aiming for.

It's not just about the pre recorded tapes, or the music, it's the careful blend that creates the whole picture.

I have absolutely nothing against using sampling, etc., but I do consider that this specific use was not done at the level of maturity of the other aspects of their program.

It was very much 'kid with a new toy' (see also: Carolina Crown 2004, Blue Devils 2005, Cadets 2006 - 2008), where the execution of a new element does not match the level of maturity or integration of other elements.

It is not the element itself that makes it feel super bando, but the less than sophisticated way in which it is employed.

[glory]

Silly? You want silly? Ill give you silly.

Lots of people thought Star 93 was silly. The brass posing, not playing. Some of them felt similarly about Cadets 87. The posing. The soft ending. Silly, they said.

Vanguards magic tricks in the 80s. Silly.

Scouts guard dancing with stools in the 90s instead of spinning rifles and flags. Silly.

BD playing Tommy instead of jazz. Silly.

Phantom performing a show, Spartacus, that required a libretto. Silly.

Crusaders guitar, Cadets guard taking up horns, theres more.

But silliest of all? Bridgemen in the 70s. Those uniforms. Silly. The antics. Silly. Ruining drum corps.

The silliest aspect of this thread is that its proponents claim to prefer tradition without understanding that tradition at all. Drum corps has always been characterized by change and experimentation, which is good. The only difference I see between yesterday and today is corps are willing to take more risks, which is also good.

HH

Edited August 23, 2012 by glory

[KAW]

Oh, thank God; I hadn't seen this thread before (because it had a lifespan of just over seven hours due to the plethora of threads that accompany an end of a season), and my first thought was, "Oh, boy...I wonder if this is about my blog," because I had a few e-mails about being silly. (Not everyone appreciated it.)

I'm just happy we still have something we can regard as either being too serious or too serious...and often at the same time.

I personally believe that many innovations (not just in drum corps) are regarded as silly in their infancy. Those that become standard are accepted more as being part of the fabric of the activity. Those that wear out their welcome (quickly or over time) will disappear into the fogginess of history. (In percussion alone, remember acrylic Ludwig Vistalite drum shells (snares and tenors), North tenors (BD 1976) and split snare shells? I just mentioned the latter in the latest "DVD Spotlight of the Week.")

Perhaps the use of audio clips will one day be regarded as silly, or will undergo a metamorphosis as designers figure out how to use them as a color and not a feature. (I thought Cadets' use of short clips over the music this year was quite tasteful. Those neither disrupted the flow of the show or were the main audio element at the time.)

Effects and other innovations that stand the test of time will find their way into the creative arsenal of designers. Those that make people ask, "What were they thinking?" will fall by the wayside.

In the meantime, we are witnessing an activity that isn't static, but continues to unfold in front of our eyes (and ears). And that helps keep drum corps feeling spontaneous and contemporary.

I'm not entirely opposed to electronics at this point, or the spoken/sung word. But as I think about it, the "best of DCI" moments in recent history contains not a single moment when electronics or the spoken/sung word was used. The only possible exception to this is the Bluecoats bari solo.

So, I think Boo is right. Many innovations in concept might work, but its going to take a while to sort out what works, and how it works. The way DCI uses some of these innovations probably will not work out, and for fans that can be unpleasant to watch.

The alternative is to never change anything. In the history of all mankind, can you show me a competitive arena that had zero change over time? Maybe some board games like checkers, but that's all I can think of. The human heart desires to move forward, not stay static.

[bluecoats88]

You didn't mention the Blue Knights. They were beyond silly this year; they were the joke in finals!

thought their show was kinda interesting and well done.

[bluecoats88]

Drum Corps has always had change. More change than any competitive activity one can think of in the entire world. We start with the fundamental premise that Drum Corps change has been seismic, dramatic, transformative and wholesale the last 50 years. There is no debate about this activity being " too static ". Holy mackeral, thats just not been the experience at all.As a result, the debate revolves around the seismic changes perhaps being too rapid, too quick or just about right. There is nothing " static " about the Drum Corps activity, and there has never been. Most other competititive endeavors have put the brakes on experimentation with time tested aspects of their activity. But thats not been the hallmark of the Drum Corps activity whatsoever. For example, 1975 baseball, basketball, football, soccer, gymnastics, etc looks remarkably like 2012 baseball, basketball, football, gymnastics, etc. Junior Drum Corps of 1975 however looks nothing like 2012 Junior Drum Corps. 1975 Junior Drum Corps, good, bad or indifferent has vanished from the face of the earth. I think its fair to say that those who have a healthy appetite and a hungar for " change " in their Drum Corps have been positively gorged with the " change " in Drum Corps the last 50 years. Their belly must feel hungar satisfied in this respect anyway in my view.

actually I think your assumption that 2012 drum corps and 1975 drum look nothing alike. they are both groups marching on a field playing brass instruments, drums, and with other members using flags, rifles, sabres etc. There are also tympani, and mallet keyboard percussion instruments.

there are differences yes, but at the heart the basic elements are the same.

[Plan9]

One man's silly is another man's entertainmnet.

One man's entertainment is another man's silly.

Silliness to us is the price we pay to have the freedom to see what is entertaining to us even though it is silly to someone else.

Thank you!

The absolutes on DCP are deafening. Someone doesn't like something (perfectly fine....it's what we do here)....BUT then, to somehow add volume to their point, it's elevated to "this kind of stuff is driving away the audience, etc". That statement is completely unmeasurable and self-serving to the prevailing argument.

The OP's point is valid for him/her ......BUT the OP (and others) cannot legitimately use "metrics" to somehow prove their point. In reality, their is no proof that the audience is being driven away, quite the opposite....numbers are up in some Regionals.

Having said that, the OP presents valid points and they are well stated, just don't expect to support them with an unmeasurable metric.

[bluecoats88]

In this particular instance, I think the questions that come to the minds of many are:

Why did the designers have to portray the alien, bird-like species so outlandishly (in the same way Cavies last year were outlandish)?

Why did the designers have to use recorded/synth music for so long at the beginning of the show?

As was stated earlier, "more" is the name of the game, and "more" has been leading, more often than not, to the OP's definition of "silly." FWIW, I loved the last half of the show.

Agreed on the Jetson thing, and the original Star Trek blurb - why?

a good bit of that stuff at the beginning was during pre-show an not during the actual show.

[Pete Freedman]

I think the OP is using the term silly to mean tacky. All the examples you gave may have been called silly by some (not exactly the criticisms they got by and large though), but they wouldn't have been called tacky. Nobody I know called Star 93 tacky or base. It was clearly high art.

On the other hand, piping in the words, alone, scared, abused etc. is being criticized as tacky because - here's the point - it doesn't convey those emotions effectively. I don't remember all of them; the one's I've listed are fairly consistent which is probably why we are remembering them. But others were not. Each emotion is not being individually 'respected'. However, this was not the worst offender, in fact imo it only went a little overboard. At least it was a new idea.

Ask yourself what the purpose of the Blue Devil's dada voiceover was.

Was it to teach the audience about dada? If so, it failed since the listener couldn't really understand what he was saying. Lecturing over art wouldn't be effective anyway because the left and right brains would be competing.

Was it to express dada using the techniques of dada? If so, it failed since it wasn't absurdly out of context as dada art is.

Was it to artifically apply a classy veneer? Ah, this is much more consistent with the evidence. This is the problem. This is what drum corps has learned in the areas of music and dance, but still needs to learn regarding these overdubs. Class (or more accurately style) is not a thing you add on top of something, like ketchup. It must be inherent in the thing itself.

Lauren Bacall was classy. Showgirl costumes seem classy. Lauren Bacall in a showgirl costume? Not classy anymore. (not criticizing the vegas show; those costumes were appropriate there of course. In fact they should really have been even more outlandish but there's only so much room on the truck I guess!)

The bible? Classy. Gold and diamonds? Classy (sort of). The bible in a diamond-encrusted gold cover? Not classy anymore.

It's about seeming versus being. Audio is being used to seem, when the corps were already being just fine.

[glory]

I think the OP is using the term silly to mean tacky. All the examples you gave may have been called silly by some (not exactly the criticisms they got by and large though), but they wouldn't have been called tacky. Nobody I know called Star 93 tacky or base. It was clearly high art.

On the other hand, piping in the words, alone, scared, abused etc. is being criticized as tacky because - here's the point - it doesn't convey those emotions effectively. I don't remember all of them; the one's I've listed are fairly consistent which is probably why we are remembering them. But others were not. Each emotion is not being individually 'respected'. However, this was not the worst offender, in fact imo it only went a little overboard. At least it was a new idea.

Ask yourself what the purpose of the Blue Devil's dada voiceover was...

I appreciate how youve framed the discussion more constructively. Still, youre arguing execution where the OP and many others were focused more on concept. You and I might agree that not every application of voice/synth/pre-recording in drum corps has been effective. I suspect wed also agree that some have been very effective. I hope wed agree that there is no cause to legislate a ban on future attempts.

Crowns marvelous 2011 show worked because electronics could be used. Cadets marvelous 2011 show also made excellent use of electronics. There are other examples.

Drum corps as a whole would have been poorer had we not been treated to those shows. This silly pity party pretends that acoustic drum corps only generated thrilling programs. Heres a gentle reminder: Caviess seventh-place finish in 1997 wasnt because they acoustic any more than their eighth place finish in 2012 was because they were plugged in.

Drum corps has always had good ideas and bad ideas, good execution and bad execution. Silly, tacky, whatever you want to call the ones that come up short, it doesnt matter.

No one wants the drumline chained to the 50 anymore. That was silly. And tacky? How glad are we those Latinized silk-style shirts are gone.

The drum corps tradition is to explore new styles. Wouldnt have it any other way. Because if we didnt try new things wed really have something to complain about.

HH

Edited August 23, 2012 by glory

[Pete Freedman]

First of all, Maestro, I finally got around to watching the Cell Phone Concerto clip and it's wonderful. A corps (VK?) could pull this off and it would be a great use of audio.

Glory: You make good points, although I interpret the OP's post's "silly" to refer to the trappings around the show, not the show idea itself. He's not criticizing the dada show idea, just the audio. Actually, he spends most of the post criticizing uniform and costume choices, which hasn't really been discussed much on the thread.

So here goes:

I much preferred the old BD ruffles look to the 'modern' silvery sequined slash they went to.

In general I like the dark look that corps are trending toward, although if too many do so it will be unfortunate.

If I were designing a corps uniform I would pick a fairly blank slate look, and then use a real sash to provide whatever color we wanted to go with for the given year. You could even reverse the sash during the show for a change-up.

In terms of class, I used to love the Warriors (NYC) maroon and grey look from the early '80s, but I can't find a picture of them from that era on the web. I did discover that they claim to have been denied access to shows in the late 30s because of their race. If so, that's way more tasteless than bad audio any day. I wonder which organization denied them.

How glad are we those Latinized silk-style shirts are gone.

Wait, are you talking about the satin Blessed Sac look? We used to wear their old uniforms in the New City Commanders ("Sac is back!", although the look and the sound are two different things :-) )

Or the Blue Devils open shirt When A Man Loves A Women look?