Full Time Careers in Drum Corps?

[Stu]

I never said it was likely. Just possible. I would bet against a 19 year old starting up a successful corps. My point was only that it was possible.

And it is 'possible' that a wild bobcat could set up his home territory on the patio of an apartment smack dab in the middle of a metroplex city; 'possible'.

[Pete Freedman]

It doesn't have to be expensive to start a drum corps or at least a winterguard styled venue. I remember when I was working as a teacher and didn't have instruments at first, I started out with just a drumline. I bought some wood at home depot and had it cut into squares and bought some drumsticks. All of that together costed under $50 and I play the piano and compose so thus, I did all brass sounds with the keyboard-midi and it turned out VERY cool. We did a show with that at my school, got standing ovations and when word got out about what we had, then was when we started getting phone calls from schools that vowed to donate and/or let us borrow instruments. Then, the year after that, I taught a few kids simple keyboard, guitar, and bass guitar (I got the guitars from the pawn shop) and they played what I taught with the drumline and that worked out and was cool. And I was ready to add trumpets too (the same pawnshop had trumpets for sale for aroundr $100 – I never bought them but they were available too); we had something very decent going, but eventually when I had to change jobs and didn't have time to keep the ensemble going, but to start what I had, costed between $300 and $400, but that's because of me not wanting to take the donated instruments (I guess it was pride); I wanted the pride in saying I did it all by myself and it's all mine– but if I took the donated instruments it would have cost less than $100, and one doesn't have to be a teacher to do what I did, one can just a minimum wage job working at McDonalds (because I know someone else who did something similar and he was a custodian).

You are my new hero! That's an awesome drum corps story. If there were a marching arts speaking circuit, you'd make big bucks with that!

Maybe DCP could start a Drum Corps Stories section of the website. People could submit their stories for approval. If approved, they would be added to the collection. You would have to flesh out the story of course and give details and polish. Anyway, thanks for the great story!

Of course, to scale it up you would have needed a reliable income stream, which is the big trick in drum corps. But then again, who says you had to scale it up? It seems like you were having a pretty good time as you were. Who knows, you might have ended up with your own little Canadian Brass.

[En929]

For a small scholastic program or an inner city youth program this is idea fine. But, in the world of today's drum corps activity this, imo, is not the way to start a modern 'drum & bugle corps'.

I’d have to disagree. What we had at the school was pretty exciting, cool, was decent. Of course, when starting out one can’t expect to be like Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Troopers, etc. (but I didn’t want to be like them nor be them either, I wanted to have my own original venue). But, one must start very small, and it doesn’t take something to be like the top 17 corps to have something going. I also disagree with your statement about this only being possible in inner city school. To that, I say no way! This could work anywhere! Simply go to a school that doesn’t have much music going, get something interesting going, and work from there.

[Pete Freedman]

(Sorry for the long post) You're talking about scaling up to a competitive level vs. staying small self-supporting group. Very different economics. Scaling up requires funding that is both big and reliable. This could happen with your method, En929, but the challenges would be great without a big bag of cash.

I have never started a drum corps myself, but as I understand it, by far the best way to start your own corps is very straightforward:

First make several billion dollars in the health care equipment field.

Then pick a place that doesn't have a drum corps (some place like Bloomington, Indiana, say).

Plunk down one million for the startup costs (a million is one thousandth of a billion, so that should really be easy for you at this point).

Hire experienced staff. There should be some disgruntled staff from other corps that will come running at the thought of actually getting paid a reasonable fee.

Employ a variety of recruitment tools. Look for announcements of corps going inactive, contact them and get their membership lists. Great for recruiting in a hurry.

Start several support companies, including a charter jet company, whose profits (once there are profits from these startups) will go to the corps. Start a bus company to use the buses in the off season, for example.

The above method of course was employed by Bill Cook in creating Star of Indiana, which went to the top quickly and then "went pro" in the sense of becoming a "brass theater" group that won two Tony awards and continues to tour successfully (the show is called "Blast!")

So what is my point here? Simply this:

The above is the only way to start a competitive junior drum and bugle corps with a high probability of still being around three years later.

That's the reality (as I see it, again not having done it myself). Drum Corps are black holes of cash, since they do not generate sufficient stable revenue from "earnings" (i.e. tuition, tour fees, prize monies) to survive. (Is there a junior corps that has really survived for any amount of time healthily on these things alone?)

So the rest is charity. And charity, whether from individual donors, governments or other non-profits, is inherently uncertain. All it takes is for one politician to be caught in bed with the wrong lobbyist and there goes your funding. Another corps starts up ten miles away with a fancier name. There go your members, and all your funding tied to that membership. But many of your expenses stay the same, because you had to make commitments to your instructors, practice hall, bus company, etc.

So you build and apply your management skills, your accounting skills, your logistical skills. You network with everyone else in the activity you can.

And then you roll the dice. And you keep rolling them. And we all hope it works out, because we want to see it on the field.

[bill]

I have had friends of mine on the staff of various corps over the years...they said being on staff may cover your "beer money". I think your best bet is to study music and to go into composition and arranging. Jay Bocook has made a good living doing that, but he also continues as the director of bands at Furman University. Let's face it making a living is tough, making a living in music is even tougher.

Scott Smith

".....beer money".

Brings to mind a time when I was playing professionally and in between studio jingle gigs I would pick up a live gig, or two, or three, or etc. etc. a week to keep food on the table; simple reason being it was local and I was burned out on "on the road" strings of one-nighters.

On one "pick-up" gig I was offered $25.00 for the night and all the beer I cared for from the bar. I was asked to do the gig a second night but they offered $50.00 a night and no drinks........they couldn't afford the bar tab. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do!!

[En929]

You are my new hero! That's an awesome drum corps story. If there were a marching arts speaking circuit, you'd make big bucks with that!

Maybe DCP could start a Drum Corps Stories section of the website. People could submit their stories for approval. If approved, they would be added to the collection. You would have to flesh out the story of course and give details and polish. Anyway, thanks for the great story!

Of course, to scale it up you would have needed a reliable income stream, which is the big trick in drum corps. But then again, who says you had to scale it up? It seems like you were having a pretty good time as you were. Who knows, you might have ended up with your own little Canadian Brass.

At the time I started the corps I was a teacher; so thus, I had enough income to get the things I needed including a place to live. But I was writing this to simply say it doesn’t have to cost as much as people think to start a drum corps (I remember someone wrote a recent thread about starting a drum corps and I wanted to respond but didn’t have time). So thus, with that in mind, one can simply work around the above (whether it involves working at McDonalds or job like that to save up for a few instruments and then teach drum corps in the evenings and-or weekends at a school, church, boy/girl club, or some place, or if someone is very young, one could dare I say live in parents basement, save up money by working at McDonalds or somewhere, and put all the money into the drum corps (I also almost had something going in high school and did it that way). But in short, simply work around the money.

[En929]

(Sorry for the long post) You're talking about scaling up to a competitive level vs. staying small self-supporting group. Very different economics. Scaling up requires funding that is both big and reliable. This could happen with your method, En929, but the challenges would be great without a big bag of cash.

I have never started a drum corps myself, but as I understand it, by far the best way to start your own corps is very straightforward:

First make several billion dollars in the health care equipment field.

Then pick a place that doesn't have a drum corps (some place like Bloomington, Indiana, say).

Plunk down one million for the startup costs (a million is one thousandth of a billion, so that should really be easy for you at this point).

Hire experienced staff. There should be some disgruntled staff from other corps that will come running at the thought of actually getting paid a reasonable fee.

Employ a variety of recruitment tools. Look for announcements of corps going inactive, contact them and get their membership lists. Great for recruiting in a hurry.

Start several support companies, including a charter jet company, whose profits (once there are profits from these startups) will go to the corps. Start a bus company to use the buses in the off season, for example.

The above method of course was employed by Bill Cook in creating Star of Indiana, which went to the top quickly and then "went pro" in the sense of becoming a "brass theater" group that won two Tony awards and continues to tour successfully (the show is called "Blast!")

So what is my point here? Simply this:

The above is the only way to start a competitive junior drum and bugle corps with a high probability of still being around three years later.

That's the reality (as I see it, again not having done it myself). Drum Corps are black holes of cash, since they do not generate sufficient stable revenue from "earnings" (i.e. tuition, tour fees, prize monies) to survive. (Is there a junior corps that has really survived for any amount of time healthily on these things alone?)

So the rest is charity. And charity, whether from individual donors, governments or other non-profits, is inherently uncertain. All it takes is for one politician to be caught in bed with the wrong lobbyist and there goes your funding. Another corps starts up ten miles away with a fancier name. There go your members, and all your funding tied to that membership. But many of your expenses stay the same, because you had to make commitments to your instructors, practice hall, bus company, etc.

So you build and apply your management skills, your accounting skills, your logistical skills. You network with everyone else in the activity you can.

And then you roll the dice. And you keep rolling them. And we all hope it works out, because we want to see it on the field.

I was saying the above from the standpoint if one wants to have a career in drum corps more or less. What you describe was something if you want to have a corps like the Cavaliers or something right off the bat, and it usually doesn’t work that way (i.e. something like the Cavaliers take years to build). I'd say again, have something small. And yes, one has to start locally; be a parade corps, play locally (heck, go to a local retirement center or whatever and entertain everybody. People love to see drum corps! And sometimes one can make a little extra cash doing it that way too)! Also, there are always schools that have drumline competitions, band competition (and if not, start one of those too). Heck, one can have a miniature DCI right there in their city’s backyard instead of going around the country and all over the place. Just get together with some schools with bands or so who are willing to participate, name the time and place, and have fun. Hell, there’s a lot one can do without having tons of money. One need NOT be like DCI and the corps in it to have something fun going (and frankly I personally wouldn’t want to do it that way anyway. It seems like a much more of a headache).

Edited September 21, 2012 by En929

[Pete Freedman]

Yeah, but this is a general problem with nonprofits: those skilled in business are usually too busy making money to run non-profits. In other words I agree that the drum corps activity needs more talented business minded people, but I think it is unlikely to get them, unless there is a sudden increase in their numbers!

I don't know what's worse: Replying to my own quote, or disagreeing with it.

I just realized I disagree with myself here. After the fiasco that was the Bushwackers thread and some independent reading on the popular myths of nonprofits, I now suspect:

1. It is a common assumption that non-profits are run by less skilled managers than businesses. This assumption seems to be unsupported by evidence and unlikely to be true to any great extent.

2. Most drum corps are generally pretty well managed after all.

3. Business skills are not the same as non-profit skills after all. There are overlaps: logistics, budgets & accounting, people skills. It's not that a good business person wouldn't be a good non-profit manager; they would likely be good at it. It's just that those with a strong non-profit background should be even better on average.

4. There is no great crisis of drum corps management, as some would have it.

5. Since drum corps rely on charitable donations, which are fickle and unreliable, the failure of a given corps probably has at least as much to do with the vagaries of chance as it does with bad management. A combination is possible as well.

6. It is generally impossible to tell from the outside whether the failure was caused by bad management or bad luck, because we don't have enough information. Even when we have a fair amount of information, as with the Bushwackers thread, it is still not really enough to conclude much about the cause of the crisis.

7. There is a lot of unscientific thinking on DCP, with plenty of assertions without sufficient evidence, hasty generalization fallacies, and gullible puppies going along with the nonsense.

I would only say that since most drum corps seem to be managed by people without much prior non-profit experience, it is imperative that they get high quality training. I believe DCI/DCA hold clinics and such, but do they do enough?

I still agree with my earlier self that the situation is unlikely to change anytime soon, but now I'm not sure it really needs to.

[Stu]

I’d have to disagree. What we had at the school was pretty exciting, cool, was decent. Of course, when starting out one can’t expect to be like Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Troopers, etc. (but I didn’t want to be like them nor be them either, I wanted to have my own original venue). But, one must start very small, and it doesn’t take something to be like the top 17 corps to have something going. I also disagree with your statement about this only being possible in inner city school. To that, I say no way! This could work anywhere! Simply go to a school that doesn’t have much music going, get something interesting going, and work from there.

I agree start small, start with realistic financial goals; but I disagree with the premise of not attempting to emulate the current great DCI corps to the best of their ability. Your idea for SDCA; Yep. Your idea for DCNA; Sure. Your idea for local kids to have fun; You Bet. And I would support you in those venues. Your idea for DCI; Nope. DCI, the acclaimed Marching Music Major League, is 'not' the old school pick-um-up sticks, bang them shells, and blow them there brass tubes type activity any longer. Any up-start corps (for DCI), imo, should be of great quality from the beginning (see the start-up and progression of The Academy).

[En929]

I agree start small, start with realistic financial goals; but I disagree with the premise of not attempting to emulate the current great DCI corps to the best of their ability. Your idea for SDCA; Yep. Your idea for DCNA; Sure. Your idea for local kids to have fun; You Bet. And I would support you in those venues. Your idea for DCI; Nope. DCI, the acclaimed Marching Music Major League, is 'not' the old school pick-um-up sticks, bang them shells, and blow them there brass tubes type activity any longer. Any up-start corps (for DCI), imo, should be of great quality from the beginning (see the start-up and progression of The Academy).

I never said anything about not having quality. To summarize my points:

1. One needs not have gobs and gobs of money and/or a huge staff, a big entourage, lots of travel, meetings, media and press, etc. to start a drum corps (I did everything by myself with what I had).

2. This is also a standpoint for if one wants to have a career in drum corps and start somewhere (as the original poster asked about)

3. One WON'T start out like the Cavaliers (I think it’s nearly impossible anyway), hence, one has to do things on a much much much smaller scale.

4. It seems to be a bigger headache doing everything like DCI as an organization anyway. I’d rather keep things simple and I bet if I were managing DCI I’m sure it need not be as hard pressed as they’re making it.

5. Yes, quality is good (and what I had again wasn’t Blue Devils or even the top 17, but it was drum corps style, enjoyable to lead, enjoyable to watch, enjoyable to hear, and that was good enough for me and a lot of people). We always strived for quality but were still realistic too.

6. Most importantly, be creative, make it fun, make it your own from the standpoint of saying "this is what I'd like to see in DCI," and see it for what it is and what it’s worth.

7. Keep going with it and build as time goes on with what you have or with what little bit you might have.

So anyway, that’s my 2 cents on this whole deal.

Edited September 21, 2012 by En929