garfield Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I think the year was 1972, and I also have it in my head that it was the three or four day trip that 4 or 5 of us Glassmen guys drove my aging Chevy to Whitewater for the first DCI champioship. Probably accurate, maybe not completely, but it doesn't matter that much. One of our guys had hooked up with the Argonne Rebels for the season, and they were staying quite some distance from Whitewater in Delevan (sp?) Wisconsin at a beautiful air-conditioned High School. By shear dumb luck, two of us encountered Mr. Opie, Argonne's Corps Director in Whitewater somewhere, and he offered us a lift back to Delevan to meet up with our bud. During the long drive, we talked Drum Corps, of course, and we hung on Mr. Opie's words trying desperately to learn the secret formula to get our corps to be successful like the Rebels. I'm sure at some level I was aware that there was a mile in difference in the overall talent in our corps vs. the Rebels, and miles and miles of difference in the experience level and education of the two instructional staffs, but for that moment, I sought his wisdom like that was all it would take to lift the 50-member Glass City Optimists to the heights of the elite corps in the country. Mr. Opie was an attorney, and a very articulate man. He seemed very tired, but patiently answered our questions like we were somehow truly worthy of his time and attention. Most of the conversation is lost to the 40 years that have passed, but I remember distinctly, and can still quote nearly word for word one particular exchange, probably because I revealed nearly all of my ignorance and arrogance with one remark. I brought up the Des Plaines Vanguard, who probably finished about 15th or so at that contest, or about 50 spots ahead of where we would have finished had we had the resources to make the trip, and observed that, "They appear to be right on the edge of folding." Mr. Opie paused for a long moment, and then said, "Son, there is not one drum corps in North America that is NOT right on the edge of folding." After another long silent moment, he went on to talk about the challenges of outfitting, transporting, housing and feeding a nationally competitive drum corps. He focused on the terrible costs to the families and careers of the Corps adult leadership, and the parent/volunteers that made it all possible. He also said that many of the corps who seemed to us to be rock-solid would fold or nearly fold in the five years to come. He then pointed out the one thing to me that hasn't changed at all in the past 40 years. He said that 90 per cent or more of the ticket buyers at Whitewater will have traveled there with a drum corps. He closed with this, said more like a sigh than a statement, "Until we can sell out the stadiums so there is no room to seat corps members and chaperones, there will be no financial security for drum corps." Not sure where this all fits in with the thread, but it has given me pleasure to remember it, and to write it down. Very interesting reflection on the dynamics of the times. Yet, to play the devil's advocate and, if I were standing in Dave Gibbs' shoes, I'd say "And yet, 40 years after identifying a problem, the circumstances are mostly the same?". The Blue Devils' balance sheet is the most pristine of any active corps today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 The show's designers should not be involved with the balance sheet (except to stay within its limits) any more than the business managers should be involved with show design.... The two are oil and water in practice, so how can one represent the other? Well then,... you have just wiped out the idea of any G7 corps director creating a success plan for DCI. Since the two sides (design and business) should not mix within a successful corps, Hopkins therefore should have no place whatsoever in the process of developing Cadets show concepts and should stay out of show concept design altogether; oil and water, oil and water, as you say, oil and water. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Well then,... you have just wiped out the idea of any G7 corps director creating a success plan for DCI. Since the two sides (design and business) should not mix within a successful corps, Hopkins therefore should have no place whatsoever in the process of developing Cadets show concepts and should stay out of show concept design altogether; oil and water, oil and water, as you say, oil and water. This makes me chuckle, Stu. Cadets' show designs have brought more joy to me over the years than, probably,any other corps. There is no doubt that he's accomplished as a designer, as his many championships and memorable shows exibit. But one needs look at only two examples of why he should not be involved with the business aspect of his organizations: 1) His 990's, and 2) The G7 Powerpoint and, in particular, the stark contrast between George's contribution vs Dave Gibbs contribution. I'm not blowing smoke up Gibbs' patootie, but the facts are that his corps balance sheet is stronger than any other corps (according to the latest available 990's), his part of the G7 presentation was, at least, well thought out and presented (even if the whole idea was wrong-headed), and you never see Gibbs pacing the sidelines as his corps performs. BD is the best example I can find of why the oil and water should be separated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Well then,... you have just wiped out the idea of any G7 corps director creating a success plan for DCI. Since the two sides (design and business) should not mix within a successful corps, Hopkins therefore should have no place whatsoever in the process of developing Cadets show concepts and should stay out of show concept design altogether; oil and water, oil and water, as you say, oil and water. Study the 990's, Stu. You ignore the possibility that the action of developing a sustainable common business plan might shine a light on the glaring fact that not even all of the G7 corps are practicing sustainable business plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Study the 990's, Stu. You ignore the possibility that the action of developing a sustainable common business plan might shine a light on the glaring fact that not even all of the G7 corps are practicing sustainable business plans. I have studied the G7 990s; paying particular attention to Devils and Cadets (Since Gibbs/Hopkins were the architects of the G7 plan) as well as SCV (since Fiedler was the Public Relations point man). I have also read through all of DCI corps' 990's, but that is only half the side of the coin you say is necessary for a corps to be a part of DCI. I take it from your recent postings that the Academy, even though their business model is impeccable and could be utilized as a plan for other corps, they should actually be removed from DCI competition for not being 'excellent' enough compared with Devils. By the way, who's bright idea was it (Hopkins or Gibbs) to disrespect and degrade the Academy, Boston, Scouts, Spirit, etc... as well as completely kill off most all of the OC corps (except, of course, precious BDB and SCVC)? Hmmm? Hopkins or Gibbs? Which one, or both came up with 'that' idea? Edited November 2, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have studied the G7 990s; paying particular attention to Devils and Cadets (Since Gibbs/Hopkins were the architects of the G7 plan) as well as SCV (since Fiedler was the Public Relations point man). I have also read through all of DCI corps' 990's, but that is only half the side of the coin you say is necessary for a corps to be a part of DCI. I take it from your recent postings that the Academy, even though their business model is impeccable and could be utilized as a plan for other corps, they should actually be removed from DCI competition for not being 'excellent' enough compared with Devils. By the way, who's bright idea was it (Hopkins or Gibbs) to disrespect and degrade the Academy, Boston, Scouts, Spirit, etc... as well as completely kill off most all of the OC corps (except, of course, precious BDB and SCVC)? Hmmm? Hopkins or Gibbs? Which one, or both came up with 'that' idea? Nah, you've mixed up my points - sorry if I'm not being clear. Academy would pass an annual audit with flying colors; it would be hard for anyone to claim they're not an excellent balance sheet. That's my point: Making competitive success the measure of excellence is futile because performance excellence is purely subjective all the way up to and including finals judges. When it comes to BUSINESS excellence, which is by definition what allows a corps to put out crappy show after crappy show if they want, the only measure should be business practice. Clearly, Academy, and many others would pass that test regardless of performance placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Nah, you've mixed up my points - sorry if I'm not being clear. Academy would pass an annual audit with flying colors; it would be hard for anyone to claim they're not an excellent balance sheet. That's my point: Making competitive success the measure of excellence is futile because performance excellence is purely subjective all the way up to and including finals judges. When it comes to BUSINESS excellence, which is by definition what allows a corps to put out crappy show after crappy show if they want, the only measure should be business practice. Clearly, Academy, and many others would pass that test regardless of performance placement. a) You addressed the point about Academy being a sound business model and being excellent; thank you. However, you did not address the question about who in the G7 authored the portion of the plan disrespecting and degrading Academy. b) With your response above you now also beg this question: What corps, and please name them, put out crappy shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) a) You addressed the point about Academy being a sound business model and being excellent; thank you. However, you did not address the question about who in the G7 authored the portion of the plan disrespecting and degrading Academy. b) With your response above you now also beg this question: What corps, and please name them, put out crappy shows? As I see the pdf, it was written by two people, George and Dave. I consider the entire presentation to be disrespecting and degrading to all corps not in their self-defined group. I don't suggest any performance is crappy, I was speaking for those who think all but the top corps don't present "excellence" by their definition of performance placement. Maybe "crappy" should be replaced with "not excellent". Edited November 3, 2012 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 third time is a charm,.......... serious question,..........approximately how many members of Blue Devils (and Santa Clara for that matter) are from the northern CA area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exgmdm Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 third time is a charm,.......... serious question,..........approximately how many members of Blue Devils (and Santa Clara for that matter) are from the northern CA area? Gary, I'm guessing no one with that info has seen the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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