Stu Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) Okay. Then what? Would dividing the revenue more equally encourage excellence? Or more mediocrity? I'm from the side of the stands that wants to see more excellence. While I stand to applaud for every corps, I have no doubt why I buy my ticket. And it's not for each and every one. Ask me, the problem isn't the way the revenues are divided. The problem is the world around us finds us less relevant every day, which puts fewer people on track to participate and support the activity. Eroding the standard of excellence would only serve to distance drum corps further from the people we hope to encourage to join us. HH I am not talking revenue sharing of unit to unit, but that a unit cannot be victorious within competition without the other units being less excellent. By definition the Boston Crusaders this past year were less in their standard of excellence than the Blue Devils; how did that 'Erode' the Blue Devils? Moreover, how did the performance of the Cascades 'Erode" the excellence of the Blue Devils? How did the performance of Music City 'Erode' the Blue Devils? I mean really? Here is an example outside of drum corps of needed units in competition: How did the Seattle Mariners horrible season of of 75W 87L, along with them never appearing in the World Series, 'Erode' the standard of excellence of the 2012 San Fransisco Giants 94W 68L along with their World Series win? Are you advocating that since the Mariners have never appeared in the World Series and that they typically have horrible seasons that they should be thrown out of the MLB to keep from 'Eroding" the excellence of the Giants or the Yankees? Come on!!! To be truly victorious the San Fransisco Giants need Seattle and the Blue Devils need the Cascades. Edited November 1, 2012 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 How about this: Every organization can join DCI and benefit from its name, history, and tour. But to join DCI you must agree to follow a BUSINESS plan that is proven to lead to success. The plan is designed by the "excellent" corps, in unison with each participating. The plan is down on paper and laid out clearly and concisely, NOT like that fabulous G7 pdf. It's a success path that mimicks the best in the activity. Almost any group of people wanting to start or grow a corps only needs follow the plan to reach "excellence" in their business plan. Audits by DCI are annual. Boards of corps, or their single representative, are responsible for going to Indy and presenting their business for audit by DCI as well as a detailed record of them following the plan's guidelines. DCI's management has the power to accept or reject a corps based on their compliance with the established business plan. If the audit shows the corps is performing the business plan, the corps is rewarded with sharing in the DCI revenue pool. The pool is much flatter than it is now, with only a small bonus awarded corps for their number of successful seasons. Performance placement is NOT rewarded financially from DCI, but can be rewarded from equipment deals from suppliers. Corps who contribute to the process of developing the plan, or auditing corps are rewarded financially by DCI stipend, at least covering their costs. Corps whose staff volunteers their time to lower-placing corps are rewarded financially by DCI, covering their costs to provide their staffs' guidance to other corps (NOT for being that corps' primary staff). DCI, the organization, is charged with the responsibility to enforcing the rules of participation. The funds necessary to enforce those rules are taken from revenues as an expense BEFORE dividng the remainder between the corps. Corps that have expertise in one function of DCI (scheduling, ticketing, clinics) must first provide those services (and CHARGE DCI for them) before those duplicate functions are implemented for solely that corp's benefit. The DCI BOD decides on whether or not those corps-provided services are more profitable than those services now being performed by DCI itself. The business plan recognizes that building a successful organization takes time, commitment of volunteers and staff, and money. DCI provides a portion of that money via payouts, but only if the corps passes the business plan audit. Oh, and DCI is run by an independent BOD, with only minimal representation of the corps themselves. We can probably come to agreement on an independent Board of business people setting specific standards for various corps to become more business minded, and that those standards should be a part of the requirement for a corps to be a part of DCI. But, irrespective of how successful certain corps have been, a business plan and audit designed by the directors of the units who recently wanted to literately kill many other corps, and that all other corps must abide by 'their' plan and 'their' audit. Really? I, for one. have lost most all trust for those directors, and view their intentions with much skepticism. So, to me, allowing those particular corps directors to dictate any of the standards smells just like the G7 idea only passed through a person's intestines and floating in the bowl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 asking again,.......... serious question,..........how many members of Blue Devils (and Santa Clara for that matter) are from the northern CA area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) Are you advocating that since the Mariners have never appeared in the World Series and that they typically have horrible seasons that they should be thrown out of the MLB to keep from 'Eroding" the excellence of the Giants or the Yankees? Come on!!! To be truly victorious the San Fransisco Giants need Seattle and the Blue Devils need the Cascades. Some years back MLB looked at reducing the number of teams by two. But.... since Milw Brewers were one of the two teams and the commish had a vested interest in the team.... nothing happened. But seriously.... griping about level of excellence or whatever only works if you can actually SEE the ####### corps. Less corps.... less shows.... less kids (that's what it's all about right) that have spots to march. I'll be totally blunt and say that people not wanting corps araound that do not match their level of excellence is one of the most selfish things I've ever heard. "I don't like them so they should disband... #### the kids, I don't want them around". And to response to HH directly on his last point. DC becoming less and less relevant (like we really ever were) because of lack of excellence is a false assumption. Since the loss of many local corps that were not that great, the remaining corps have on the average gotten better. But.................. attendance still went down. Hey excellent DC is still MB to most people, and it they don't care to see MB doesn't matter how good it is. Bottom line: If we have less corps then we have less chances to promote and grow DC. Contracting to "save" the "good" corps would be to admit that DCI can never grow again. Edited November 1, 2012 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 How about this: Every organization can join DCI and benefit from its name, history, and tour. But to join DCI you must agree to follow a BUSINESS plan that is proven to lead to success. The plan is designed by the "excellent" corps, in unison with each participating. The plan is down on paper and laid out clearly and concisely, NOT like that fabulous G7 pdf. It's a success path that mimicks the best in the activity. Impossible. The success plan of the top DCI corps is an elitist model. It cannot be expanded so that the rest of the corps follow it. For starters, a big part of the business plan for top corps is a larger budget, sustained by the larger revenue sharing payments and merchandise sales that only top corps have. How can other corps mimic that? Equipment endorsement deals and clinics-for-cash are other areas where a winning corps finds that their name is worth more money than that of other corps. More money ensures that the top corps can retain the best instructors, acquire the latest equipment immediately, and maintain their competitive position. Digging deeper, DCI has always operated on an elitist business model. From their start in 1972, DCI has always leveraged non-member corps for the benefit of member corps. The founding corps could not stitch their first tour together without other corps helping fill the lineups. DCI Championships would never have been the draw it has been if it was limited to a private club of 13 corps. Having dozens of additional participating units improved the DCI draw all across the tour - and at a discount, since non-member corps have never been paid as well as member corps. For your idea to work, we first need a different DCI business plan that is designed from the start to work for ALL corps, not just the top ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 A lot of the answers begin with defining just exactly what "excellence" is. You, and others, may go to see only the top corps that fulfill your definition of excellence. But many, many more go to see those corps that are not defined as excellent (I've always wondered: when they're all excellent, what's the competition?)… Just to clarify, I wouldn’t say I go ONLY to see the tops corps. I do, however, go PRIMARILY to see drum corps at its best. That can be different things at different times. What that never should be for me is any form of lowest-common-denominator drum corps. I doubt I’ll ever buy a ticket to a show just to see brass, drums and quasi-military uniforms. What I want to buy is the right to see and feel a certain level of artistry using that brass, those drums and even those (increasingly silly) uniforms delivered via music in motion. This sort of “excellence” requires achievement. This combination of music, motion, artistry and achievement is why I could admire BD alongside Crossmen, Colts or Surf last summer. It’s also why I couldn’t admire certain other corps who need not be named. High school bands are an adequate substitute for corps who bring neither artistry nor performance to the field – and sadly there are too many who don’t. Putting a larger share of the activity’s revenue in their hands would be a disaster in my view. Rather than discourage poor choices, it would empower them to the detriment of the activity as a whole. We are far better off scratching our heads at the BD 2012 version of excellence than some other corps’ more mediocre product. One is a magnet even if polarizing at times. The other – but for winds, season, etc. – is more in the high school band category with all that implies. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I am not talking revenue sharing of unit to unit, but that a unit cannot be victorious within competition without the other units being less excellent... Sorry. I apparently misunderstood your previous post. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exgmdm Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) ... For your idea to work, we first need a different DCI business plan that is designed from the start to work for ALL corps, not just the top ones. Please correct me if I'm mistaken about this, but it seems like the "revenues" that a "9th through 23rd" or whatever corps recieves from show appearances and DCI are relatively small. NOT unimportant to any organization which needs and spends every nickel of revenue, but small. Since it appears that most of the budget comes from "tour fees" (we would have called them "dues"), doessn't it seem to reason that every corps needs additional sources of revenue? The Glassmen Bingo revenue built the corps (it was invested wisely, clearly), and now that it's gone, no substitute is available. This thread is attempting to find answers to this single question: Assuming the Glassmen (and others yet to be named) DO raise the $300,000 to enable a responsible tour for 2013, what will they (GMen and Others) do to raise the needed cash in the future? We already know that the question is easier to answer for a corps with a good recent competitive record, but I refuse to believe that this activity only has room for 6 or 8 drum corps. I refuse to believe that because of the Academy, Music City, and others like them who have started releatively recently. Clearly the medium (as currently defined by DCI and DCA rules) still has great appeal for musically talented performers. Touring the country practicing all day and giving great performance at night... what's not to like? Can audiences be found who are willing to pay a higher price to see and hear the product? Are there tangible benefits to a city or region that has a corps based within? Can those benefits be "sold" to that community for cash? Is there a role to play for colleges and universties? They are not exactly fountains of cash these days either. Can we find "corporate" sponsors who are not in the business of supplying corps and bands? What valuable benefits could accrue for a company who associates its name and checkbook to a drum corps? IMO, these are the questions we as a fraternity must answer. Edited November 1, 2012 by exgmdm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 ...And to response to HH directly on his last point. DC becoming less and less relevant (like we really ever were) because of lack of excellence is a false assumption. Since the loss of many local corps that were not that great, the remaining corps have on the average gotten better. But.................. attendance still went down. Hey excellent DC is still MB to most people, and it they don't care to see MB doesn't matter how good it is.... I don't think it's false. DCI's importance depends in no small part on its ability to represent itself as "marching music's major league." If more corps are more similar to more marching bands, that's a formula for irrelevance. Why sweat out a summer at mediocre Corps X if you could be a champion at your high school in the ABC Circuit and maybe have a summer job and a summer girlfriend? On the other hand, maybe you'd pay to march Cavies and give up the job prospect and (definitely) the girlfriend if you thought your investment would pay off in something exceptional that you couldn't get at High School Y or College Z. Attendance is a separate issue and a more complicated one in many ways. I'd argue its decline since the 70s is due mostly to shifting demographic and social trends. But let's reserve that for another thread. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) I don't think it's false. DCI's importance depends in no small part on its ability to represent itself as "marching music's major league." If more corps are more similar to more marching bands, that's a formula for irrelevance. Why sweat out a summer at mediocre Corps X if you could be a champion at your high school in the ABC Circuit and maybe have a summer job and a summer girlfriend? On the other hand, maybe you'd pay to march Cavies and give up the job prospect and (definitely) the girlfriend if you thought your investment would pay off in something exceptional that you couldn't get at High School Y or College Z. See some of your points but concentrating on "excellence" is DCI putting all of its eggs in one basket IMO. Being at the other end of the "excellence" scale (so to speak... no one shoot me ) I've been with DCI elegible members that do not try to join a DCI corps for various reasons (and 2(?) that did). IMO, DCI is shooting itself in the foot by basically ignoring the non-top world and its potential members. Yes the top corps make the big bucks and generate the publicity for DCI but some day they're going to turn around and wonder where the rest of the corps went. IOW - there's no bottom supporting the top.... Attendance is a separate issue and a more complicated one in many ways. I'd argue its decline since the 70s is due mostly to shifting demographic and social trends. But let's reserve that for another thread. HH OK I was (partially) judging relevance with attendance as IMO if no one is watching they something is not relevant. Edited November 1, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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