Why do DMs Corps-Hop?

[fsubone]

I actually like that idea...a lot.

It was a joke idea. It would be stupid for DCI to implement something like that. When people only have a finite amount of time to march, they should get to choose to go where ever they want to go to send their money and summer.

[skeptic]

for the money.... oh, wait.

[BRASSO]

It was a joke idea. It would be stupid for DCI to implement something like that. When people only have a finite amount of time to march, they should get to choose to go where ever they want to go to send their money and summer.

I have no idea why DCI has not increased the age limit of marching to perhaps 25-26. Why not ?

DCI has aligned themselves with the Colleges, particularly the College Marching Bands. Does everyone finish college at 22 ? Do the College Marching Bands have noone in their ranks over the age of 22 ? What is so important about the age of 22 anyway that says " time to get out of DCI Marching " ? I understand that for most, 22 seems about right to move on to careers, relationships and so forth. But not for EVERYONE. If DCI increased the age of marching to 25-26, most will opt to leave voluntarily for themselves before this anyway. But we have lots of colleges with athletes playing for their colleges beyond the age of 22 today. Just about EVERY team has players on their squad over the age of 22... and the colleges are chock full of students attending full time day classes over the age of 22. Some are transfers. Some are military. Some are " late bloomers " or " slow learners ", or whatever. Many are quite responsible too.. and as said, the college and university marching bands are already utilizing some marchers in their band that are over 22. So I say, DCI should increase the age limit to beyond 22. This would allow Corps to retain veteran marchers and the lower tier Corps as well to retain marchers. The product improves, and trhe numbers of participants increase, thereby adding stability to the activity across the board. I see few negatives in increasing the age limit. So what am I perhaps missing as to why DCI can't increase the age limit to beyond age 22 ?

Edited April 11, 2013 by BRASSO

[normy diploome]

I have no idea why DCI has not increased the age limit of marching to perhaps 25-26. Why not ?

DCI has aligned themselves with the Colleges, particularly the College Marching Bands. Does everyone finish college at 22 ? Do the College Marching Bands have noone in their ranks over the age of 22 ? What is so important about the age of 22 anyway that says " time to get out of DCI Marching " ? I understand that for most, 22 seems about right to move on to careers, relationships and so forth. But not for EVERYONE. If DCI increased the age of marching to 25-26, most will opt to leave voluntarily for themselves before this anyway. But we have lots of colleges with athletes playing for their colleges beyond the age of 22 today. Just about EVERY team has players on their squad over the age of 22... and the colleges are chock full of students attending full time day classes over the age of 22. Some are transfers. Some are military. Some are " late bloomers " or " slow learners ", or whatever. Many are quite responsible too.. and as said, the college and university marching bands are already utilizing some marchers in their band that are over 22. So I say, DCI should increase the age limit to beyond 22. This would allow Corps to retain veteran marchers and the lower tier Corps as well to retain marchers. The product improves, and trhe numbers of participants increase, thereby adding stability to the activity across the board. I see few negatives in increasing the age limit. So what am I perhaps missing as to why DCI can't increase the age limit to beyond age 22 ?

College/university bands are subsidized to a large part by the university mega-million dollar budgets and zillion dollar stadium programs. Many of the DCI corps benefit, if even in a small degree, from grants and possibilites because they are youth, not adult programs. If the age ups, then these doors are closed. Perhaps there should be two divisions, college age and non-college age as 18 is no longer considered youth in some quarters (such as we allow them to vote, serve in the military defending the US, marry in some States, etc.) However, at 18 they are not legally able to drink alcohol, cannot enter into many contracts, and need a co-signer to even rent a car,etc. So the age-bracket you speak of is caught between a teen-age world and an adult world. As the economy continues to be horrible, I presume that fissure will only become a wider chasm. Increasing the age may give a more developed performance from more devoloped marchers, but I contend that a large part of DCI has always been the culture of developing our youth. Something other needs to be instituted for the older crowd.

[Pete Freedman]

There's a historical context here that hasn't been discussed yet.

When I was in drum corps (late 70s - early 80s) the activity was in transition between two radically different models. In the earlier model a corps was (it seemed to me) a little army of kids that a specific town, through it's civic organizations, sent to do virtual battle with other towns' little armies (and loud little armies they were!). That's why they had military uniforms, and rifles, and the town name was usually the first part of the corps name. The activity was started by people who felt that the military was where boys became men, and you could give the little ones a head start by putting them in a play army. It was all about discipline and loyalty.

This model painfully gave way to the model of a performing arts summer school on wheels that we see today.

Would it be disloyal for an army member to switch to a competing army? I suspect those in the civic organizations who created the activity would have said it violates exactly the kind of values they were trying to teach.

But now it's a different activity. Is it disloyal to transfer colleges?

[normy diploome]

There's a historical context here that hasn't been discussed yet.

When I was in drum corps (late 70s - early 80s) the activity was in transition between two radically different models. In the earlier model a corps was (it seemed to me) a little army of kids that a specific town, through it's civic organizations, sent to do virtual battle with other towns' little armies (and loud little armies they were!). That's why they had military uniforms, and rifles, and the town name was usually the first part of the corps name. The activity was started by people who felt that the military was where boys became men, and you could give the little ones a head start by putting them in a play army. It was all about discipline and loyalty.

This model painfully gave way to the model of a performing arts summer school on wheels that we see today.

Would it be disloyal for an army member to switch to a competing army? I suspect those in the civic organizations who created the activity would have said it violates exactly the kind of values they were trying to teach.

But now it's a different activity. Is it disloyal to transfer colleges?

playing the devil's advocate here (no, not those Devils)... Are you the starting quarterback or the water boy? Are drum majors at a different standard or merely another member?

Edited April 11, 2013 by normy diploome

[BRASSO]

There's a historical context here that hasn't been discussed yet.

When I was in drum corps (late 70s - early 80s) the activity was in transition between two radically different models. In the earlier model a corps was (it seemed to me) a little army of kids that a specific town, through it's civic organizations, sent to do virtual battle with other towns' little armies (and loud little armies they were!). That's why they had military uniforms, and rifles, and the town name was usually the first part of the corps name. The activity was started by people who felt that the military was where boys became men, and you could give the little ones a head start by putting them in a play army. It was all about discipline and loyalty.

This model painfully gave way to the model of a performing arts summer school on wheels that we see today.

Would it be disloyal for an army member to switch to a competing army? I suspect those in the civic organizations who created the activity would have said it violates exactly the kind of values they were trying to teach.

But now it's a different activity. Is it disloyal to transfer colleges?

I would agree with this observation and the assessment of fundamentally what Drum Corps was trying to achieve in earlier days compared to what it has become today. ( without making judgement here on the worthiness of the change in the attributes it was primarily attempting to inculcate then compared to what appears to be the focus of attributes it is attempting to develop today. )

Since transfers between " armies " is less acceptable than transfers between " schools ", then it seems to me that the age 22 restriction is no longer a valid cutoff date for " musical education maturity " as it once was perhaps with the " teenage and adulthood " demarcations . DCI moved its age restriction recently from age 21 to age 22. As near as I can tell, that change did not effect its Gov't " grant " status nor that it is is still an amateur" youth enterprise " involved in the education of " youth " in the Performing Arts field. Colleges have amateur " youth " playing football and other sports thru their late 20's and its amateur status and the colleges tax status has not been unduly effected. The college marching bands tax favored status has not been altered at all, despite having marchers over 22 as well. I see no reason that raising the age from 22 to 24 or to even 26 would negatively effect the tax favored status of DCI Drum Corps once again either. I'm open to compelling and persuadable comments to establish otherwise however. But for the moment, I see no rational reason to restrict marching to those under 22, when allowing a higher age might very well be one thing that can be done to bring in more marchers, retain more marchers, and add a bit of needed stability across the board to both the elite Corps as well as those below, trying to retain marching memberships, and fill out their ranks with reasonably talented budding musicians and dance performers.

Edited April 11, 2013 by BRASSO

[Pete Freedman]

playing the devil's advocate here (no, not those Devils)... Are you the starting quarterback or the water boy? Are drum majors at a different standard or merely another member?

I don't understand the first part of your question, unless you are asking whether I was a drum major; I wasn't. I made it up to 2nd baritone.

As to the second question, that's a good one. Should drum majors be more loyal than other members because of the effect their leaving might have on other members. Perhaps. How's that for precision?

In general, I have always felt that DMs should not be considered leaders in any other way than their role and core competency requires. It was always amusing and a little scary when the director would speechify about the new drum major and their leadership role in the organization. We always knew it was just grown-ups doing strange grown-uppy things. In fact the drum majors would never attempt to lead us in any way other than conduct, and we knew they didn't have the skills to do so. In drum corps people earn their authority, and that authority has a scope which corresponds to their proven skills.

Today I would think it would be even more true. Because today, leadership is thought of more as a skill everyone needs, not only the bosses. Leading from the middle, and all that. So I was surprised at the post describing DCI's leadership program for drum majors.

If a drum corps wants to do itself a solid, it should make it clear that the drum majors are authorities on the field (and other conducting matters), but not in other areas. Then they can relax and probably have a better time.

But your point is valid; it would be perfectly reasonable for a corps to request a commitment that a new drum major will not switch corps in the future without permission. And it would be reasonable for DCI to enforce such an agreement. My 2 cents. Great discussion.

[danielray]

I have no idea why DCI has not increased the age limit of marching to perhaps 25-26. Why not ?

DCI has aligned themselves with the Colleges, particularly the College Marching Bands. Does everyone finish college at 22 ? Do the College Marching Bands have noone in their ranks over the age of 22 ? What is so important about the age of 22 anyway that says " time to get out of DCI Marching " ? I understand that for most, 22 seems about right to move on to careers, relationships and so forth. But not for EVERYONE. If DCI increased the age of marching to 25-26, most will opt to leave voluntarily for themselves before this anyway. But we have lots of colleges with athletes playing for their colleges beyond the age of 22 today. Just about EVERY team has players on their squad over the age of 22... and the colleges are chock full of students attending full time day classes over the age of 22. Some are transfers. Some are military. Some are " late bloomers " or " slow learners ", or whatever. Many are quite responsible too.. and as said, the college and university marching bands are already utilizing some marchers in their band that are over 22. So I say, DCI should increase the age limit to beyond 22. This would allow Corps to retain veteran marchers and the lower tier Corps as well to retain marchers. The product improves, and trhe numbers of participants increase, thereby adding stability to the activity across the board. I see few negatives in increasing the age limit. So what am I perhaps missing as to why DCI can't increase the age limit to beyond age 22 ?

If you're over 22 and still in a college band (and you're not in UNT drumline)... something is wrong with you.

Being in college band at all is questionable. I hated every minute of college band and I was the drum major. The only redeeming factor was beer.

[danielray]

Nothing like chasing a ring? Maybe he's deciding he wants the hardware for his last year. Happens every year with BD, they have tons of kids coming over from other top corps, because they have a higher chance of medaling or winning there than anywhere else.

Not really. They come because it is a very different experience than many groups, just as Cavaliers or Cadets are a very different experience and Crown a much different experience if you're in the hornline.

Some guys also just want a variety of experiences, sort of like collecting those glasses at Arby's. Nothing wrong with that.