Pete Freedman Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Remember, I had not done any homework prior to my first viewing of Crown's show. I had no idea of the actual words that the voiceover was saying, and it didn't matter in the least. Well, we do hear "These are the days, my friends; these are the days, my friends" quite a lot. If a judge wonders, "What days? The good old days?" or whatever, and another judge doesn't, they would logically judge it differently. Keep in mind; I'm not objecting to the vagueness in the show at all; only that it can't be vague for the judges, and the judges shouldn't have access to anything the fans can't see (if they want to). I'm not saying it has to be spelled out for everyone. I think you're looking too deeply as Crown's performance being a literal translation of Wilson's work. The scientific/percussive nature of the voice over - not the literal words - is what makes the point. Science - science - science, rhythm, rhythm, rhythm, numbers, numbers, numbers. Love. The contrast of the show's construction matches the theme of both the opera and the music chosen. You're perhaps right in explaining the rhythm of the voiceover in that part, but the reason for that particular content (i.e. the lyrics) is unclear. You might be right, but it's not obvious; that's my point. Again, I'm no scientist, but I didn't need to understand the work of Einstein, I only needed to know that it was scientific and mathematical which I could have gotten from just the show's title. The contrast to love is clearly evident. If fans, or judges, got only that much from the show, it sells. The infinity sign at the beginning clearly suggested that infinity's meaning is part of the equation, while the wording suggested that everything has a beginning and an end. Again, the contrast and conflict. I suppose if you did a show about the oceans, you could devote the second half to deserts and cactuses (cacti, apparently). Because, you know, it's a contrast. Yes, the infinity sign clearly relates to the no-limits-to-my-love part, although it has nothing to do with Einstein or e-mc2 that I know of (but then I'm not a physicist). And, could you really expect a judge to make that connection on first viewing? Horse-head stick figurines doubling as coat racks. Yep, that sure was a clearly defined element of that show. Yes, but then they had broadly advertised the eccentric nature of their show with the dada theme. This effectively gave them license to put anything in as long as it was weird. However, had they been required to explain each element to the judges, they might have said, but that's not dada, that's just weird. Where's the irony? Where's the statement about mankind that the narrator is talking about? The result would have been a more careful design that actually matched the stated intent better. They would have researched dada more. (Although with the hobbyhorses I think the judges would have let them get away with the idea that the word dada was thought to have meant hobbyhorse). No, their signature move is the crown, which we haven't yet seen but I'd bet comes in the ending. Connecting the physical cube that has, itself, 3 dimensions to a two-plane field design that becomes 3D only through the accurate execution of the MM's is reaching for a connection that is, in truth, only a coincidence. Geometric designs, even done well, only have significance if they are connected to the show design on the field. No, I think they do it as a drill move in that show as well, don't they? I'll check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Yes. Crown 2012 does a rotating cube DRILL (in addition to the props) in finals on FN at 11:40. Crown 2013 at DCI Minnesota does the "prism" at about 11:45. I say it's a signature move in the making. Like Phantom has their logo drill form, but also other notable things like the famous wedge-with-feet-out they used to do. Both are signature moves in my definition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0at Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Had to share the best HQ vids of Crown brass I found recently. Wow! 1080 P That and put on some good headphones. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lone ranger Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Had to share the best HQ vids of Crown brass I found recently. Wow! 1080 P That and put on some good headphones. That closer rifle work is ridiculous! 3:25-3:45 on that video. That's one long, hard, fast, musical phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 That closer rifle work is ridiculous! 3:25-3:45 on that video. That's one long, hard, fast, musical phrase. They are just ridiculously good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Personally, I feel the same way. And my question is not meant to single out Crown, as many corps inject research-inducing content into their show design, some relying on it far more than Crown. The question still remains - does this practice of creating thematic scavenger hunts for diehard fans (and judges) backfire with the casual fan, to the degree of pushing them away from the ticket counter? Probably a question better left for the off-season (and fairer to be asked in a thread not linked to a specific corps). I have never met a casual fan of drum corps. Do such fans even exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 If I were a corps director and my show designer said she wanted to create a show designed primarily to attract new fans to the activity, I would veto that plan immediately. Here would be my reasons: - The vast majority of fans have always been those associated with the activity; typically corps members and relatives. Even members' friends are hard to catch, and have always been so even when the corps were more 'populist' than they are now, and on network television. - Our shows should be designed to thrill the corps members, and crucially to attract the next generation of outstanding corps members, and to some extent staff. To this end we must constantly improve our understanding of prospective members; what they like now, what they will probably be into as they mature, and what will blow them away if they are exposed to it. Some of them are in other corps now, and some are not; that's two distinct 'markets' for our product and we need to understand both of them, as well as other variations in the kids. For example, dance students may tend to react to different shows than brass students, while percussion students probably like different shows as well. - Shows like Rock Star and Angels & Demons didn't attract lasting new fans to the activity. This is not surprising, because all those prospective fans never saw those shows or even heard about them or the activity. The shows are behind an iron curtain paywall by the financial necessity of DCI; one of the implications of that is that nobody outside the activity ever sees drum corps shows. I doubt those shows were created to attract fans; they were created for the reasons outlined above. - As to how edgy or arty you want to make the show; we look at the factors outlined above, but also we need to look at the other corps we are competing against; if we all go arty at once, the existing fans may get turned off a bit. I think that's happened a bit this year with BD, Cadets and Crown; it's just that all three went edgy in the same year, which is what's getting the fans a bit snarky. - Do a show you will enjoy making, modifying, and discussing with the kids all year, because the more enthused we all get, the better they will perform it and the more they will learn. Amen to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.l. Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I have never met a casual fan of drum corps. Do such fans even exist? Most likely friends/significant other/spouse of a diehard fan. They'll go if asked and like it, but they won't spend their time looking on the internet for vids or DCP. I know some who have said, no joke: "well, we went last year to the show, why would we go again so soon?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) Can we just dislike narration because we don't like it? I mean, I've seen this sort of thing being done for like EVER, and I mostly don't like it for personal reasons. Marching bands have been narrating for at least 25 years. They've been doing it since before I was in high school, so I don't think it's universally living in the past for many as you imply, it is an aesthetic that many just don't care for... I think Crown is doing a good job with the EotB voice parts; I'd like to hear it without them and make my opinion about which way I prefer it, but I'm not going to get all upset about it. I know other people probably will, but I do not believe that they're living in the past, I just believe that they don't care for it. Maybe they just want to hear the hornline and the drums? Who knows... I don't think anyone has a problem with people not liking voice over. I personally think it is usually done poorly (though I think corps are doing it better than ever and I like it in Crown's show this year and BD's show last year). What I don't think makes a lot of sense is to pretend like the voice elements are somehow distinct and separate elements that are laid on top of the music. Saying you wish you could hear it without the voice to decide what you like better is like saying you would prefer to hear SCV's show without any mellos playing to decide what you like better. But no one would ever say anything like that about the mellos. The voice is part of the music and I think you either take it or leave it. Mahler's 2nd Symphony would not be the same piece of music without the chorus. The same is true of EOTB. I realize the instrumental piece Crown is playing in the ballad is not part of EOTB, but the narration is still part of the musical design of the show and the show would not be what it is without the narration. That may not work for some, but I don't think we get to pick and choose what elements of a composition should stay or go. I'm not expressing myself very well. I'm guessing that made no sense at all. Hopefully you get the gist though. Edited July 26, 2013 by jasgre2000 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Most likely friends/significant other/spouse of a diehard fan. They'll go if asked and like it, but they won't spend their time looking on the internet for vids or DCP. I know some who have said, no joke: "well, we went last year to the show, why would we go again so soon?" I notice that even if you get great seats for your family/friends, and even if they are blown away at the time, they still lose interest afterward. They forget how much fun they had almost immediately. I wonder if there is a sense that there's so much camaraderie, and excitement for the members, non-marchers never really feel "attached" to the activity. Granted, this doesn't happen with other sports. Plenty of football fans were themselves never on a team, and if that bothers them it doesn't stop them from being fans. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.